Description:
Dwe Williams interviews her daughter about being adopted and living with her family in Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewee: Jasmine Williams
Interviewer: DWe Williams
Interview Date: 9/26/2007
Interview Location: Ralph Ellison Library
DWe Williams: Hi! Today is September 26th, and we’re here at the Ralph Ellison Library in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I’m DWe Williams. I was born in Durham, North Carolina on May 8, 1953. I’m here interviewing my number one daughter, Miss Jasmine. Jasmine, introduce yourself.
Jasmine Williams: Hello, my name is Jasmine. I am 29 years of age. I grew up in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I was born in 1978. I was adopted by my mother, Miss DWe Williams, and I was raised by my mother and my grandma, Miss Lily Williams.
DW: Jasmine, where were you born?
JW: New Jersey.
DW: New Jersey. Do you call New Jersey home, or do you call Oklahoma home?
JW: Oklahoma.
DW: Oklahoma. How old were you when you were adopted?
JW: Four.
DW: Four years old. What’s interesting to know about you when you were four years old? How much did you weigh?
JW: 13 pounds and 8 ounces.
DW: 13 pounds and 8 ounces. Were you talking and walking?
JW: Yeah, I was talking and walking.
DW: What kind of talking were you doing?
JW: A little bit of sassy.
DW: A little bit of sassy. I remember when I took you to North Carolina for the first time and you met your Grandpa James. What nickname did he give you?
JW: Tutti Fruitti.
DW: Tutti Fruitti. What were some of the other nicknames that you’ve had along the way?
JW: Chilly Bit, Little Bit.
Together: Sassafras.
JW: A whole bunch.
DW: Jazzy. J. Little Jazz. Tell me what it felt like, what it feels like to be adopted.
JW: It’s wonderful. It’s interesting. You learn a lot.
DW: You learn a lot. Tell me about who’s in your family now.
JW: My brother John Marcus, my sister Jamila, my sister Pam, my sister Shaun, my nephew Tyrene, my nephew James, my niece Aurielle, my niece Brynn.
DW: Do you have another brother?
JW: My brother James.
DW: What happened to James?
JW: He died.
DW: He died?
JW: Yeah, he had a disease.
DW: What was that like for you to lose a brother?
JW: It was sad, but again it was happy ‘cause he’s up there with the angels.
DW: He’s up there with the angels. Did you forget another one of your brothers? Who’s your youngest brother?
JW: Oh yeah, Jordan. I’m so sorry.
DW: You are so sorry you forgot your brother Jordan. What’s it like to be in such a large family?
JW: It is a great experience. It’s fun.
DW: What’s the best memory of being in a large family?
JW: Thanksgiving time ‘cause you get to be around your whole family.
DW: What happens at Thanksgiving at your house?
JW: You talk about being thankful for something and you eat and you cook with your whole family.
DW: What do you have to be thankful for?
JW: Having my brothers and sisters and my mom and my grandma.
DW: That’s what you have to be thankful for. What’s the best thing about your grandma?
JW: That she still knows how to cook like she used to and that she’s still alive.
DW: What does she like to cook?
JW: Cakes.
DW: Cakes. Why do you think it’s such a blessing for your grandma to still be alive? What happened?
JW: Because we’re best friends and – [pause].
DW: Did your grandma have a stroke?
JW: Yeah, she had a stroke.
DW: What’s different now when you go to visit your grandma?
JW: We have to help her out a lot.
DW: What are some of the things you do to help her?
JW: Give her her medicine. Help her put on her clothes. Take her teeth out.
DW: Take her teeth out?
JW: [laughs] Yeah.
DW: What do you have to do with her teeth?
JW: You put them in some water and this medicine stuff dissolves the germs off the teeth.
DW: When you go to visit your grandma, that’s part of your job every time?
JW: Yeah and to help my auntie, too.
DW: Why are you helping your auntie?
JW: ‘Cause she had a stroke too and she needs help just like my grandma. We push her in the chair.
DW: What does your auntie give you most of the time when you help do chores and things?
JW: Money.
DW: So you charge your auntie?
JW: Well, not no more ‘cause we had a – [trails off]
DW: You had a what? A disagreement?
JW: Yeah.
DW: What was that disagreement?
JW: That she wasn’t going to give me no more money. It’s ‘cause it’s better to help her for free than to have her pay me.
DW: It’s better to help her for free than to have her pay you. Do you ever think about your birth family?
JW: No.
DW: Do you know anything about your birth family?
JW: No.
DW: If you got to meet your birth mother, what would you say to her?
JW: Nothing because she was never in my life. She never cared about me.
DW: Ah-hah. Do you have birth brothers and sisters that you wonder about?
JW: I have two sisters.
DW: Do you wonder what it would be like to meet them?
JW: Yeah.
DW: If you met them, what would you say to them?
JW: Hi. What’s your name? How are you? How’s things going? What kind of job do you have?
DW: Is there anything that you wonder about, like it what it would have been like if you stayed with them?
JW: No.
DW: Okay. Let’s talk about something else. Where did you go to school?
JW: I went to Classen School. I went to Classen, Taft, Sequoyah, Hoover.
DW: And Johnson.
JW: Johnson Elementary.
DW: Was there anything special about school?
JW: Learning, teachers, having friends.
DW: Having friends. Was there anything special about your classes?
JW: No.
DW: No? What was your first teacher’s name?
JW: Janine Brazel.
DW: Brazel. Do you remember a big event for Janine Brazel that you were a part of?
JW: Yeah, her wedding.
DW: What did you get to do in her wedding?
JW: Be the flower girl.
DW: You was a flower girl. Did she - was your brother James in the same class with you?
JW: Yes.
DW: Yes. What was special about the way that James looked and the way he did things?
JW: He rolled around in a wheelchair and he acted like a normal person like everybody else around the world.
DW: What was different about him?
JW: He didn’t have any limbs.
DW: He didn’t have any arms or legs. Did you ever get into it with him?
JW: Yeah, sometimes, but I regret that.
DW: You regret that?
JW: Yeah.
DW: Did y’all ever have a fight?
JW: No.
DW: No fight? What’d y’all fuss about?
JW: Just little things.
DW: Little things like what?
JW: I can’t remember.
DW: You can’t remember. What do you remember about him and money?
JW: He used to save it up.
DW: Yeah, I remember that. He always saved money and he always had money. Did he ever get in trouble?
JW: Yeah, sometimes.
DW: Tell me about that day that y’all found some money that belonged to your mother and went to the 7-11 store.
JW: My brother Marcus stole it and Jimmy told John Marcus to go in the closet and go get the money where it was stashed at ‘cause Jimmy couldn’t walk over there. Anyway, we took the money and we divided it up and about four squares, and we took it to the store and we all each bought an item, and then we was coming back and the nosy neighbors named Jolene and Tom told on us. We got into trouble.
DW: You got in trouble. So what did you buy?
JW: I bought candy.
DW: What did Jimmy buy?
JW: Caps.
DW: He bought a hat, didn’t he? What did John Marcus buy?
JW: I don’t remember.
DW: You don’t remember. Mm-hmm. So how long did it take y’all to tell the truth about taking my money?
JW: A minute.
DW: Only a minute?
JW: Yeah. A long time.
DW: It really was a long time. Did y’all get a punishment for taking my money?
JW: Yeah, we got a big punishment.
DW: What was that punishment?
JW: That we all had to be in our rooms, be grounded. Rake leaves. No TV.
DW: No telephone. Did y’all ever take any money ever again?
JW: No, not after that experience.
DW: After that experience, y’all never took any more money from me?
JW: [indistinct noise]
DW: What was that? I can’t hear you.
JW: No.
DW: No, you never took any more money. Okay, tell me about the best family trip we went on.
JW: To Disney World.
DW: We went to Disney World. Yeah, and I –
JW: But I was the one that ruined it.
DW: What did you do?
JW: I forgot my medicine [DW scoffs] so we had to turn around and go back home, and everybody was mad at me.
DW: Well we paid a lot to get into Disney and we were there, what, an hour? And then you kept asking to go to the bathroom, and that made me realize that you didn’t take your medicine. Our hotel was an hour and a half away from Disney, so they gave us some of our money back and then we went back home. Let’s see. Where else have we gone on a family trip?
JW: Washington, D.C.
DW: Washington, D.C. Where else?
JW: New York.
DW: You’ve been to New York. Anyplace else?
JW: California, Texas, [pause].
DW: I remember going to New Mexico. Did you go to New Mexico?
JW: Yeah, I went to New Mexico.
DW: You went to New Mexico. What was the last trip you took? Didn’t we go? You and I, we rode the train.
JW: We rode the train to New York.
DW: To New York. What did you do while you were there?
JW: I went to the movies.
DW: [scoffs] That’s right. You went to the movies. You didn’t go with me to see the play.
JW: No.
DW: I went to see “The Color Purple,” but you went to the movies and went shopping with Shaun. Let’s see, Miss Jasmine. What do people need to know about you?
JW: [pause] Nothing.
DW: Nothing? I asked you earlier about whether you were in any kind of special classes and you didn’t really answer that. Tell us about the kind of classes that you were in at school.
JW: Disabled classes.
DW: You were in disabled class?
JW: Lab classes.
DW: How did you feel about being in lab classes when other people were in regular classes?
JW: Left out.
DW: Left out? Tell me about that.
JW: It’s not the same as regular classes ‘cause you gotta take like little kids’ work.
DW: Like little kids’ work?
JW: Yeah.
DW: Did you do a good job at the work the teachers gave you?
JW: Yes. I made As and Bs.
DW: That sounds pretty good. Did you make any lifelong friends that you still have?
JW: Yeah.
DW: Who’s your friend from your classes?
JW: [pause] I don’t remember.
DW: Tell us about Lindsey.
JW: Oh, Lindsey. She’s hearing-impaired.
DW: What’s her special talent?
JW: Drawing.
DW: Drawing. That was her special talent. Art. What was your special talent?
JW: Singing.
DW: Singing. Did you sing in the choir?
JW: Yeah, but we had to dress in these funny-looking dresses when we went to go sing for the people.
DW: I remember one time you went with the choir to go to a contest. Tell us what happened when the bus came back. Who was not on the bus?
JW: Me and this boy.
DW: Why were the two of y’all not on the bus?
JW: ‘Cause we were too busy flirting.
DW: And you missed the bus?
JW: Yeah, we missed the bus.
DW: How did you get back to Oklahoma City?
JW: They had to come back and get us.
DW: I think they had to come back and get you or they put you on somebody else’s bus or something like that.
DW: When you were in high school, were you in any plays?
JW: Yeah, but I don’t remember.
DW: You don’t remember the names of the plays that you were in? Do you remember being in “New Clothes for the Empress” when I directed it at your school?
JW: Yeah.
DW: And you and Lindsey were in another play together. I can’t think of the name of it. Are you in plays anymore?
JW: Yeah.
DW: What’s the last play you were in?
JW: “Sweet Biscuits.”
DW: “Sweet Biscuits.” What was your favorite part about “Sweet Biscuits?”
JW: When Grandma snuck in on us while we were on the dance floor.
DW: When we were at the Foggy Bottom. What about in the church scene when we’re all sitting on the bench and we’re all falling asleep?
JW: I had a solo and it was called, “On That Great Gettin’ Up Mornin’.”
DW: Can you sing that for me?
JW: [singing] On that great gettin’ up morning fare thee well, fare thee well.
Both together: [singing] On that great gettin’ up morning, fare thee well, fare thee well.
JW: [singing] I’m not gon’ fear like shouting –
Both together: [singing] Fare the well, fare the well. I’m not gon’ fear like shouting fare thee well, fare thee well.
JW: [singing] On that great gettin’ up morning –
Both together: [singing] Fare thee well, fare thee well.
JW: [singing] On that great gettin’ up morning –
Both together: [singing] Fare thee well, fare thee well.
DW: What did the audience do?
JW: They clapped.
DW: How did that make you feel?
JW: Great.
DW: Great. What do you want to – do you have some questions you want to ask me?
JW: [pause]
DW: I can’t hear you. [laughs]
JW: [pause] No.
DW: No questions at all? This is your chance.
JW: [pause]
DW: Did you ever know why I adopted you?
JW: ‘Cause I was cute.
DW: Oh, ‘cause you were cute. [chuckles] Did you know how I found out about you?
JW: In the paper.
DW: It was in a photo listing paper and it showed pictures and descriptions of children all over the United States that were looking for adoptive homes, and so the case worker brought this little clipping to me and she said, “What do you think about this child?” I looked at it and I said, “Gee, she is little!” After awhile, after getting a lot of information about you, finally I went to New Jersey to visit you for the first time. I think I went back and forth from New Jersey to Oklahoma about four or five times before I finally got to bring you back. I would fly to New York, and then my cousins, who lived in Harlem, one of them would go with me and I’d have a backpack and I’d go to New Jersey, and I’d go to your foster mother’s house. Do you remember what her name was?
JW: No.
DW: Miss Johnson. I would pack all of your stuff in the backpack, and then you and I and my cousin would get on the train and go to New York, and you would spend time with us in New York, and then I’d take you back to New Jersey and I’d fly back to Oklahoma. The whole time, they kept thinking, “Oklahoma? They’re not going to have all the medical stuff that she needs in Oklahoma.” We found very good doctors and a pharmacist and a regular doctor and a specialist and an endocrinologist. Who was your endocrinologist, the very first one?
JW: Doctor Blackett.
DW: Doctor Blackett, and he said basically we know how to take care of her in Oklahoma. Finally, I went to pick you up to bring you back to live in Oklahoma, and your caseworker came along with us, and we got delayed about six or seven hours. When we got back, it was like 2:00 in the morning or something, and all of our friends who were supposed to be there, there was nobody there to meet us. We looked and coming down the hall was who? Do you remember who finally came and picked us up?
JW: Jeff Hardley.
DW: Jeff Hardley. He was my attorney, so he’d helped to do all the legal work for your adoption and he was also our friend, and it was Jeff who came and picked us up from the airport and took us home, so we didn’t really have a big party that night. But it was exciting to get back to Oklahoma for real, anyway. That’s kind of how I ended up adopting you. I knew that we were going to have a lot, a lot, of doctor’s appointments, and I had to learn how to give you shots. I had to learn how to give you a growth hormone shot every day, and I did that every day for about – oh gosh, seven or eight years, and then finally you got old enough to be able to give your shots yourself. I don’t really give you shots anymore do it?
JW: Mm-mm. [meaning no]
DW: Because you learned how to do all of that yourself. I always tell people that you were a little person but you were so much more than I even knew how to ask for because I did not know what it was gonna be like to raise Miss Jasmine. When you got to the point of being sassy and talking on the telephone – tell us about the telephone, Jasmine.
JW: [pause]
DW: What happened with the telephone?
JW: I meet lots of friends and I would get in trouble.
DW: You meet lots of friends over the telephone. Are they people you’ve ever even seen?
JW: No.
DW: You just like to talk to them?
JW: Mm-hmm. [meaning yes]
DW: What’s the most expensive thing you ever did over the telephone?
JW: Call long distance.
DW: How much was the bill?
JW: I don’t remember.
DW: You don’t remember. Was it more than $200?
JW: Mm-hmm. [meaning yes]
DW: Mm-hmm. You’ve been spending a lot of time trying to pay back that telephone bill.
JW: Mm-hmm. [meaning yes]
DW: That’s not going to happen again, is it?
JW: No.
DW: No. If you could have anything in the world, what would you want?
JW: [pause]
DW: I know. A telephone with unlimited long distance.
JW: [indistinct noise] I want some Heelies.
DW: Some Heelies? What are Heelies?
JW: These shoes with rollers on them, with skates on them. I want those.
DW: Roller skates? That would be your transportation?
JW: Yeah.
DW: What’s your transportation now?
JW: A bike.
DW: How many bikes have you had?
JW: Over 10.
DW: You said probably over 10. What keeps happening to them?
JW: They get stolen.
DW: They get stolen, but if you had Heelies, they wouldn’t get stolen?
JW: I’d keep them inside the house.
DW: You’d keep them inside the house and they wouldn’t get stolen. Tell us about who your favorite rap star is.
JW: Missy Elliot.
DW: What’s your favorite kind of music?
JW: Slow jams like R&B and country, and – let’s see.
DW: You like country music?
JW: Yeah.
DW: [laughs] Who do you like that a country music star?
JW: Reba McIntire. Garth Brooks. All them.
DW: Country music. Let’s see. What’s your favorite kind of church music?
JW: I like them all.
DW: You like them all. Tell us about your preacher at church.
JW: He’s a nice guy. He preaches well, and all the women like him.
DW: What about you?
JW: Yeah.
DW: Yeah. Can you remember a favorite thing he preached about?
JW: I don’t remember.
DW: You don’t remember. What’s your favorite – if you could live anywhere in the world, where would you choose to live?
JW: [pause] Las Vegas.
DW: [laughing] What would you do in Las Vegas?
JW: Shop, drop, and roll.
DW: Shop, drop, and roll. What would you be rolling?
JW: Dice.
DW: Dice. [laughing] Do you remember on your 23rd birthday, my friend Miss Ford and I took you on adventure?
JW: Yeah, we went gambling, and we went to a club, an adult club.
DW: What kept happening to us when we were in the casino?
JW: We got carded every five seconds.
DW: Did we win any money?
JW: No.
DW: I don’t think so. When we went to the club, did we stay long?
JW: No.
DW: We kind of went in there and sat down for a minute and looked around and said, “Okay. We’ve been here. Now we’re out of here.”
JW: Mm-hmm.
DW: What was the best thing we did for one of your birthdays?
JW: Rented a limo.
DW: Where’d we go?
JW: We went out to eat, and we went to Bed, Bath, and Beyond, and we bought a blanket and had cake and stuff like that.
DW: And we drove around the lake, and it was probably about ten of us and we had a lot of fun. What’s something wise that you know?
JW: That my mom is a great storyteller and that when I’m sick, I like to hear her voice ‘cause it makes me better.
DW: ‘Cause that makes you better. When you hear somebody saying, “Oh, look at that little girl. She’s so cute.” But you know you’re 29 years old now, what do you think?
JW: It’s okay for people to say that.
DW: It’s okay for people to say that?
JW: Yeah.
DW: Sometimes you tell me that it hurts your feelings when you hear people say that you are delayed or slow. What word do you want them to use?
JW: That’s not gon’ bother me no more in the future. I’m just going to ignore them.
DW: Why did it used to bother you?
JW: ‘Cause I didn’t understand it.
DW: So what word do you want them to use when they describe you?
JW: It doesn’t matter ‘cause the Lord knows best.
DW: I think it should matter. When somebody says you’re retarded, how does that make you feel?
JW: Sad.
DW: So that’s probably not a word you want them to use?
JW: No.
DW: So we would take retarded off the list [JW giggles], so you might want them to call you what?
JW: Delayed.
DW: Delayed? Developmentally delayed?
JW: Mm-hmm. [meaning yes]
DW: What are the things that you’re not delayed in, that you’re just good at?
JW: [indistinct noise]
DW: You’re good at singing.
JW: Yeah, and good at coloring.
DW: Good at coloring.
JW: Listening to music by ear.
DW: Listening to music by ear. What do you cook? Can you cook?
JW: Yeah, I can cook. My mom taught me how to cook.
DW: What do you like to cook?
JW: Breakfast and lunch, like grilled cheese sandwiches, macaroni and cheese, cakes, cookies, pies, all that good stuff.
DW: All that good stuff. Anything else you want to say?
JW: No.
DW: Well thank you for this interview, Miss Jasmine. Do we have a song to go out with?
JW: Yes. [singing] Come join me in a circle, ‘round and around we learn. You share your gifts with me, and I’ll share my gifts with you. [trails off]
DW: [singing] Come, come join me in a circle, ‘round and around we learn. You share your gifts with me, and I’ll share my gifts with you.
Both together: [singing] Come, come.
DW: Thank you.
JW: Mm-hmm.
End of interview.
Transcriber’s Note: DWe Williams began adopting children in 1983, ultimately adopting seven children from 1983-1988. Several of these children had special needs. She founded the Rhythmically Speaking in 1996, which provides theater productions for youth and their families, especially those with special needs. She can be read about in the Tulsa World and The Oklahoman story archives.