Description:
John Rolfe Jr. talks about living in northeast Oklahoma City and about his family funeral home business.
Transcript:
Interviewee: John Rolfe Jr.
Interviewer: Melba
Interview Date: 8/24/2007
Interview Location: Ron J. Norick Downtown Library
Melba: Good morning, John. How are you doing this morning?
John Rolfe Jr.: Doing just fine.
M: Good. I am so honored that you’d take time from your schedule and interview for this centennial project called the Oklahoma Voices. I was excited about interviewing you because of the work that I’m doing on living legends, and you family is one of the oldest families in Oklahoma City. There is a street named after your family, and for as long as I can remember, I went to school with your brother Henry. You all had just been constantly chipping away at doing things that would make our community better. I’m going to be interviewing you in an autobiography-type style so that we will be able to have your background and know a little bit about you. We’re going to talk about your work and the contribution you’re making in the area with the work that you’re doing. Tell me your name.
JRJ: John Robert Rolfe Junior.
M: Your birth date?
JRJ: January 1, 1945.
M: Our relationship?
JRJ: We’re friends.
M: Where are we?
JRJ: We’re in the library in Downtown Oklahoma City.
M: When and where were you born?
JRJ: 1945, born here in Oklahoma City.
M: Where did you grow up?
JRJ: I grew up in Oklahoma City, in different areas of the northeast section.
M: What was it like?
JRJ: Growing up?
M: Yes.
JRJ: Normal adventures, I guess.
M: I was there for some of it ‘cause you went to Douglass. What kind of socializing did you do? Where’d you go and socialize?
[talking over each other]
M: You can start as young as you want. Childhood.
JRJ: Basically, kind of grew up in a neighborhood where everything was kind of close-knit. You didn’t have very far you could go in the first place. Basically in the northeast section.
M: You grew up during segregation and the early part of integration.
JRJ: Right. Segregation.
M: What were your parents’ names?
JRJ: My mother’s name is Lily Campbell, or Lily Williams was her maiden name. My father is John Rolfe Senior.
M: What were your parents like?
JRJ: Just like normal parents, I presume.
M: Where were they from?
JRJ: My mother was from Muskogee originally. My father was born in Oklahoma City.
M: How did your mom get to Oklahoma City?
JRJ: The story of my mother is that during her childhood, as they were growing up, she was one of four sisters. Something happened to her mother. Her mother died, and the children were put up for adoption. She was adopted by a Mr. Williams here in Oklahoma City, so this is how she eventually ended up in Oklahoma City growing up.
M: What was your relationship with your parents?
JRJ: Good.
M: That’s good. Do you remember your grandparents?
JRJ: Not exactly. [coughs] My grandfather, Robert Rolfe, died the day after I was born. My grandmother Nannie, I think she lived about two years after I was born, so I really have no vivid recollections of them growing up.
M: On your mother’s adoptive family, do you remember the grandparents with that family?
JRJ: Yes.
M: What were their names?
JRJ: Mr. Williams, I forgot what his wife’s name was. He was a very nice person. I kind of remember during that time that, again, like I said, was in that area where everyone lived because everyone was in a particular area. It was kind of a thriving area for Black people. Everyone seemed like they got along fairly well within that community and within that region. Everyone knew everybody. It was a close-knit community.
M: Do you remember any of the stories they used to tell you? Your parents would frequently tell you stories that they want kept in the family. Are there some stories that you would like to share at this time that you might want kept in your family in your own voice?
JRJ: None that I can really remember.
M: If you come up with some story before we end this interview, I will permit you to give it so that your family will have the benefit of that story.
JRJ: Okay.
M: Who are your favorite relatives?
JRJ: My favorite relative?
M: You can have an S on that, but you can give us just one. Remember those other relatives that might pick this up. [laughs]
JRJ: Well, on my mother’s side, I had an aunt and she was a lot of fun to be around because she had a son who was a few years younger than I was. We had a lot of fun together.
M: Y’all played?
JRJ: Quite a bit.
M: Were y’all playing here in Oklahoma City or did you travel to see this aunt?
JRJ: No, here in Oklahoma City.
M: What school did you go to starting at elementary school?
JRJ: I started with Edwards. Edwards was elementary school back then. I went from Edwards to Truman, Truman to Moon Junior High, and then eventually to Douglass.
M: As a young person, did you have any responsibilities? Like in elementary school times?
JRJ: You mean like babysitting or something like that?
M: Yeah. Did you have any home responsibilities growing up?
JRJ: Once I began to have brothers, I was kind of like the babysitter, but no particular thing other than –
M: Babysitting stands out.
JRJ: Well, learning how to clean up and take care of yourself.
M: Personal hygiene. Did you have any siblings? I knew Henry. Did you have any other siblings?
JRJ: Well, Henry Junior is my first cousin. As far as brothers are concerned, they are my brothers but they’re in reality my half-brothers. Billy Campbell, Danny Campbell, and Starla Smith were my stepbrothers and sister.
M: Did you all grow up together?
JRJ: Yes.
M: When you were growing up, do you remember getting in any trouble while you were still in your elementary or high school years?
JRJ: You mean kid trouble? [coughs]
M: The kid kind, the kind that gets you in trouble, on punishment for extended periods.
JRJ: No.
M: So, you pretty much just had a little basic correction, nothing that stands out.
JRJ: No. I guess the worst thing to happen to me, and this was in later years, is I was going fishing one time without a fishing license. The game warden came by and said you should go get your fishing license. A couple of us didn’t, and we were hanging out all night at the lake, so they came back and got us and put us in jail.
M: That is good, and you all decided after he was nice enough to ask you to go and get your – [laughing]. Were you in high school? Sounds like a high school prank to me, testing the waters.
JRJ: That’s what it was.
M: [laughing] How did that work for you, John, getting put in jail like that?
JRJ: It was quite an experience. We were only in there for a couple hours, but again, it was quite an experience.
M: You didn’t have to go back.
JRJ: Nah. It’s one of those things that teaches you that you should follow the rules. If you follow the rules, you’ll be alright.
M: That was a good, good lesson. Do you remember who was with you when you had that learning experience?
JRJ: Yeah, a couple of friends of mine.
M: You don’t want to share their names?
JRJ: Ricky and Ted.
M: Okay. Do you have a very favorite childhood story you’d like to share?
JRJ: None that I can really remember. One of the things I do kind of remember, though, is during the time I was growing up, when I was about five or six, I ended up living in Chicago for about a year and a half. Something like that. That was a tremendous experience also.
M: Who did you live with in Chicago when you were five or six?
JRJ: My mother.
M: You were with your mom. What do you remember about that that made it so interesting?
JRJ: Compared to the things they do nowadays as far as gangs are concerned, I do remember being in an area to where you had people who would kind of, you know, make you do things to a degree. I remember one time, there were some guys out shooting guns. I don’t know if they were real guns or BB guns or what, and they’d make the little boys go and put the bottles up, the targets. I was one of the kids putting up the targets at that time. They didn’t shoot at you, but it’s a vivid memory.
M: And you’re just five years old.
JRJ: Yeah.
M: That should have been pretty scary, wasn’t it?
JRJ: Well, no not really, because like I said, you grow up in that neighborhood and it’s just kind of the way they did things and I survived it, so [trails off].
M: You survived it. Yeah, you’re telling me, but you were exposed to it.
JRJ: Yep. That’s for sure.
M: Well, I’m glad you shared that with us. That doesn’t happen every day. [laughs] That scared me just listening to it. Do you have a nickname?
JRJ: Yes.
M: What is it?
JRJ: Peewee.
M: Okay. Do you remember who your best friends were in school when you were in elementary and high school?
JRJ: High school, yes. Elementary school, basically you had to – growing up you were basically with the same people. Once you got into junior high, you kind of committed with the same people as when you grew up, I mean in certain areas. You had people that were at the Truman Elementary School before we went to Moon, and then once you went to Moon, you were involved with people from the other elementary schools. That’s when we really began to kind of mix in. I had quite a few friends. We had, once we got into the high school, there was a group of us that we formed our little group. We used to call ourselves the Magnificent Seven.
M: [laughing] Who were the Magnificent Seven?
JRJ: All gentlemen, all young men. We all played sports together and we were basically all band members. We were all friends. It was myself, Ricky Bradshaw, Charles Clemmons, Walter Mason, Donald Jordan, and Charles Ledge, and Paul Jordan.
M: I always admired almost all those guys, and I didn’t realize y’all had a club. That is so good. I know that you have a family, so are you married?
JRJ: Yes.
M: The name of your wife?
JRJ: Dorothy.
M: Do you have children?
JRJ: Yes, one living son.
M: And your son?
JRJ: Jarvis.
M: Jarvis?
JRJ: Yes, Jarvis Rolfe.
M: And you have a son that’s not living.
JRJ: Yes. He’s deceased. John Rolfe the Third.
M: Would you like to talk about your family in any way, your wife or your family? Is there something that you would like to say about them in your interview?
JRJ: No, other than it’s been and adventure, staying together and trying to make it in the world. That’s about it.
M: It’s hard to be in a family. One of the things I’ve been doing research in, John, is since 2002 I’ve been doing research since the ‘70s for marriage and family counseling issues. Since 2002, I’ve been doing some marriage research with the Oklahoma Marriage Initiative and with the University of Denver because we have one of the highest divorce rates in the country, and I’m definitely one of those statistics. I’ve had a tremendous problem in that area, so as I began to study the research and as I try to work on my own family, it’s something that you have to work at. Family life is not something that just happens. It’s something that you have to work at and something that requires a great deal of effort, attention, and commitment. There are just, you know – I just think when I look at that question – I ask everybody if they’d like to say anything because they are your support. We want to make sure you have a chance to talk about them.
I’d like to talk to you about the Rolfe Funeral Home business and let you tell me in your own words about that business. That is a family-owned business, and I respect and admire your family for being able to build a business and keep it going all these years, and keep the family involved in the operation of the business. This a Dunn and Bradstreet quality company. I had an opportunity when I was in business to do business with you all, with the finest integrity. I just would like to have a chance for you to talk in your own words because I do so admire your family and your business. In your own words, just let me know what you’d like to tell us about it. You can start anywhere you want.
JRJ: The business was started by my grandfather, and he started the business for his sons. Robert Henry Rolfe is my great-great-grandfather, and he started the business for his sons Henry Rolfe, Walter Rolfe, and John Rolfe. They started it back in 1937. Funeral homes were one of the more stable businesses from what I gather from history in the Black community. The first funeral home was down off of 4th Street. Growing up, I remember a high number of older people who remembered my grandfather more for his broom factory than anything else. He was an entrepreneur, and he loved helping people in his community. They had a broom factory somewhere. Again, since I was so young, I never saw it, but there were so many people that used to say that they remember him for the broom factory. As far as the funeral home was concerned, as I grew up and began to have more participation in it, I kind of could see the possibilities of going into it as a livelihood later in my life. Funeral homes basically are family-oriented because you’ve got more family members and you grew up around it, so you become used to the business and what’s necessary to make that business go on. They kind of just go from one generation to the next. The first business building was on 4th Street. They moved from 4th Street over to 10th Street, and from 10th Street over to Northeast 36th where we are presently located. We’ve been in that location since 1988. All of the brothers, original brothers, are deceased. I’ve had my son, my cousins, and then my cousins’ family members try to go into the business. Some of them have been able to stay and some of them have not. Right now, as far as Rolfe’s is concerned, that’s kind of thinned out because with the loss of my son, there are aren’t any per se named Rolfes in the business, but there are some Rolfe family members involved. Mister John Adams is one of my first cousins. His mother was one of my father’s sisters. He’s still in the business, and he has one of his sons, Ernest, that’s coming to the business with us now also. Although it is still family-oriented, now it’s a corporation, so it’s broken up with shareholders. We still are a family-oriented business, and at present, I’m the majority stockholder.
M: So you’re still maintaining the control of the namesake, but you have made it owned by people outside of yourself so that it can continue to thrive and grow.
JRJ: Correct.
M: Well, I certainly see that taking place. You all have grown with the times and made the adjustments that were necessary to continue into the duration. As we come to a close in the interview, I would like to ask you whether or not you have any church affiliation that you’d like to share with us.
JRJ: The church that I go to is Fairview Baptist Church. Fairview Baptist Church is down off of 7th and Rhode Island, and as a matter of fact, it is in the same area, within the same block, that I grew up in with Mr. Williams. That’s where I was first introduced to that church, is because of growing up in that area. Like I said, during that time, everyone was kind of basically confined to an area. As the years went by and city began to open up, essentially what they did was let Black people begin to move more to the north of Oklahoma City from 2nd Street. Second to 4th is where they were kind of limited. Then it went up to 8th Street, and then it jumped over further, but it started going northward. Anyway, my church is in the same area, in the same block, where Mr. Williams raised my mother.
M: You returned back to your roots, so to speak, for worship. You were going to say something. Go ahead.
JRJ: No. I just feel comfortable there. Basically, my family, the Rolfe family, is affiliated with Fifth Street Baptist Church.
M: That’s where I remember when I was young in my life. My father was an African Methodist Episcopal minister that traveled. We were within walking distance to Fifth Street, so we walked to church because he went to a lot of little bitty churches in little bitty towns and preached.
JRJ: My grandfather Robert helped the church get the land where 5th Street is. As a matter of fact, 5th Street was a break-off branch from one of the original Saint John churches. The old Saint John church was on 2nd Street right across the street from where a number of Rolfes used to live. During that time, they were only permitted within a certain area anyway. Basically, my father and my uncles were totally committed with 5th Street Baptist Church. The main difference is something I really didn’t say, which is that one of the reasons that things, for myself, were so different, was that my mother and my father got divorced when I was five years old. That’s one of the reasons we ended up in Chicago. The other reason is why I did a lot of moving around an area. I grew up in a survival mode.
M: I understand. I did too. My parents got a divorce and I understand.
JRJ: I learned how to take care of myself and survive. At least, that’s what I called it.
M: That is what it is.
[talking over each other, both laugh]
M: Well, me too. I’m with you, John Rolfe. We survived it so far, but when your family goes through a divorce, you wonder if you’re going to survive. It hurts. It hurts, but I’m here to tell you that as we have this interview, we can just encourage someone that might be going through a family separation, a divorce, any kind of adversity, which life will bring along with the good times, if you hold out, you will survive. You have to take it one day at a time and I know for me, it has a lot to do with my faith, and people who are kind enough to stand with me through that adversity. Everybody can’t do that. That’s the hard part. Everybody can’t do that, and as you mature, it’s okay that everybody can’t do that. For those who do, it is a great blessing. I’m just glad you hung in here with us this morning because the schedule got awry. I know how hectic your schedule is, and we are not offering any compensation for your time. The community is going to be blessed by your making this contribution of your history, and we just want to thank you. If there’s any final remark you’d like to make, I’d like to let you have the last word and we’ll wrap it up.
JRJ: Thank you for letting me come down and share some of my family history. I hope your project is a success, and I love Oklahoma City. I’ve always lived here, and like I said, whatever we can do to make the city better for the future generations of people growing up here or coming through here is well worth the time.
M: This is one of the things that we know you can do, and I love the library’s developing the concept. Dana is forward-thinking in letting us have this Voices project because a lot of ordinary people are going to get to piece together their family histories, and our state is going to be stronger and better for it. This ends the interview, and thank you so much, Mr. Rolfe.
JRJ: Thank you.
End of interview.