Description:
Gravely Finley talks about his life as a doctor in northeast Oklahoma City.
Interviewee: Gravelly Finley
Interviewer: Female Interviewer, very likely Melba Holt, as she mentions this interview in her conversation with Gloria Hall.
Interview Date: 10/8/2007
Interview Location: Finley’s home at 3249 Brush Creek, OKC
File Name: Gravelly Finley 10-08-07.wav
Transcribed by: Katie Widmann
Transcriber’s Note: Mr. Finley’s grandson is present for this interview, as well as an unknown female, possibly his home nurse. Also, there is the persistent sound of a ticking clock in the background throughout the interview, as well as an intermittent sound of a pencil on paper.
Female Interviewer: Good afternoon, Dr. Finley.
Gravelly Finley: Good afternoon.
FI: We just want to thank you for welcoming us into your home for an interview for the Oklahoma Voices Centennial Project. We would like to let you know that it’s very important to us, and we really appreciate you doing it.
GF: It’s my pleasure.
FI: If you would just start off by telling us your name?
GF: Gravelly, G-R-A-V-E-L-L-Y F-I-N-L-E-Y.
FI: Gravelly Finley. Please give us your birthday.
GF: March 20th, 1906.
FI: Where are we located?
GF: 3249 Brush Creek, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
FI: Where were you born, Dr. Finley?
GF: Batesville, Arkansas.
FI: Where did you grow up?
GF: Batesville, Arkansas.
FI: What was that like?
GF: Lovely place. Small town of eleven thousand. And we all were wet. [both laugh] We were on the north side, twelve miles south of the Missouri line, a little country town, Batesville, on the White River.
FI: What was the nearest major city you would say you were close to?
GF: Little Rock, Arkansas.
FI: Who were your parents?
GF: Samuel Finley and Bessie Finley.
FI: What were your parents like?
GF: My father was a contractor. We had a small town, but he built everything in that town, including the post office, department stores, mortician, school. He was a general contractor. He installed electricity, paved the streets. He was a busy man. My father was busy. He worked with anywhere from fifty to sixty people year-round.
FI: Wow. What was your mother like?
GF: Very, very attractive lady. Very painstaking. For example, she had five boys and two girls. She spent most of her time – in fact, all of her time – working with us. After I got large enough to work with my father, I heard him tell his men at noon his wife had done more work this morning than either of us. That’s the type of person he was.
FI: Wow. Did you have any brothers and sisters? You said there were seven of you.
GF: Yes. I was number two. Samuel Finley, named for his father; Gravelly – that was my mother’s maiden name and they gave that to me. I had another brother named Carl Finley; Charles Richie Finley; and Frank Finley.
FI: Did you have any sisters?
GF: Two sisters.
FI: And their names?
GF: Effie Nola and Bessie Irene.
FI: What were your brothers and sisters like? Do you want to tell us what they were like?
GF: Yes. For example, my brother, older brother, was a very excellent musician. When he deceased, he headed the department of music in Virginia State University. [Unintelligible]. Carl, the brother under me, was a mortician and a dentist. His office is #135 in Lexington, Kentucky. Then he moved to New York City. The next brother was a musician. The other brother – all of us went into the service except me. Frank was taken from the high school to the Philippine Isles. They used pigeons to carry messages. He had what they called pigeon fever and he died in the Philippine Islands.
FI: While he was in the military?
GF: While he was in the military.
FI: I’m sorry to hear that.
GF: It was a very unhappy time. They brought his body back to San Francisco and called my parents and said that they would give him a burial there, or they could have his body picked up. Very unhappy time for our house.
FI: Was he still a very young man when that – they had taken him right from high school, you said.
GF: In 12th grade. He had bought his cap, his robe, everything. And they were in such a rush for him, they gave him four days to get to San Francisco, three days to be in the Philippine Islands. A very sad time.
FI: Did your brother get to finish high school?
GF: No. Oh, yes.
FI: He did get to finish?
GF: High school.
FI: I’m sorry about that. Did you cover each one of your brothers you would like to tell us about, and a little bit about them? Did you tell us everything you wanted to tell us about your brothers?
GF: Yeah, I told you about the one that’s a musician.
FI: Yes.
GF: The other one was a musician and he sang and was a preacher. That’s Carl [This may contradict the earlier statement that Carl with a mortician and a dentist]. Charlie volunteered and went to the Army early. Frank is the one that got shipped out.
FI: He’s the one that went over before he could barely finish high school?
GF: Yes. He came back and finished. [The timeline here is a bit confused. It sounds like: He ships out a week after getting drafted, later returns to finish high school, and then returns to the Philippines where he dies?] I had two sisters, Bessie Irene and Effie Nola.
FI: Bessie Irene –
GF: - was my first sister. The next one was Effie Nola.
FI: Effie Nola.
GF: Named for aunties. You know how they did things in those days. My father sent most of us—he helped us to go to school. Unusual thing. I would tell my daddy every day – he gave us a dollar to go to school – he should put a dollar back for my sisters. He couldn’t see that. He was a contractor. When same time came for them to school, he wasn’t going to send them. My wife and I sent both of them to college for four years and drove their transportation. Effie got her master’s, and then her Doctorate from the University of Illinois. My other sister got her master's from Chicago University. The one that had her doctorate was principal of a high school in Cleveland, Ohio when she deceased. My younger is still—[to grandson] What’s the name of the town? [he may have been about to say she was still living, but Effie, the one with the doctorate, is the younger sister and he just said she’s deceased]
Grandson: Toledo.
GF: Toledo, Ohio. She’s in real estate.
FI: Okay. Do you have any memories of your grandparents?
GF: Yes, I do.
FI: Would you share their names if you remember their names?
GF: I do. My father’s father was named Charlie Finley.
FI: Your father’s father was Charlie Finley.
GF: My mother’s father was Richard Gravelly.
FI: Your mother’s father was Richard Gravelly?
GF: Yeah. He had had several names. He was a slave; and every time he was sold, he would take the new owner’s name. That’s where he got the ‘Gravelly.’
FI: Do you remember your grandmothers’ names?
GF: Clara Finley. And Matilda. My mother’s mother’s name was Matilda.
FI: Clara Finley, and your mother’s mother’s name was Matilda.
GF: Yeah.
FI: Is that as far back as you can trace your family tree? It’s excellent.
GF: Oh yeah. My parents were slaves.
FI: Can you remember in the early years of your early childhood, and where you went to school in your early childhood? You were in Arkansas.
GF: Well, I’ll just go to the tenth grade. In their opinion, when an Afro-American finished the tenth grade, he could sign his name and he wasn’t capable of learning any more than that. But they weren’t able to convince my parents. My father didn’t believe that, and therefore didn’t follow that instruction.
FI: So you were continuing to learn?
GF: Oh yes. All of us got our degree, first degree. Five boys and two girls got theirs, and the last one got her Ph.D. from the University of Illinois, and was principal of a school in Cleveland, Ohio when she deceased.
FI: When you completed your education, could you tell us how and where you went to school from – the names of the schools you can remember?
GF: I remember them all.
FI: Then just tell us how you went ahead and got your education.
GF: We went to school in Batesville until we finished the tenth grade. There was one high school in the state of Arkansas that a Black individual could go to, in Little Rock. Gibbs High School.
FI: Gibbs?
GF: Gibbs. G-I-B-B-S.
FI: Gibbs High School in Little Rock, Arkansas.
GF: The only high school in the entire state –
FI: -- that a Black person could go to.
GF: That a Black person could go to. At first, they let us go for free. Then, they said the county was too poor and they charged us a fee to go to high school. But we had been taught to work and we worked to help our father. I left home in 1926. When I went back, I had gotten a degree from Wilburforce University, a diploma from Dayton University, my Master’s in Chemistry from Ohio State University, and I registered at Meharry Medical College in 1930. I stayed there until ’35 when I graduated.
FI: From Meharry in 1935?
GF: 1935. Then I came here and was married – I finished medicine the 25th of May. I married her the 20th of June. We went to Los Angeles on our honeymoon.
FI: Los Angeles, California? You’ve talked about your wife a little bit before this interview. Would you tell her name?
GF: Saretta Slaughter. S-A-R-E-T-T-A S-L-A-U-G-H-T-E-R.
FI: I’ve talked to your grandson. Did you all have any children? I’m sure you did. You have a grandson.
GF: Just the one. One child and he’s in Florida. This is my grandson here with me.
FI: What is your son’s name, the one that’s in Florida?
GF: He’s Junior.
(Transcriber’s Note: Mr. Finley means his son is named Gravelly Finley Junior.)
FI: He’s Junior. Okay. When you were in school, you were in school at a difficult time for Blacks to continue their education. Did you actually enjoy school?
GF: I did. Certainly and many, many things. Lord have mercy.
FI: Could you tell us about some of the things that happened and some of the things that you remember about some of your classmates when you were in public schools?
GF: Yes, indeed. When I went to Ohio State, on campus it was our privilege to eat anywhere we wanted to. But if you crossed the street, they would not sell you a sandwich, wouldn’t sell you a bottle of pop. That made it very difficult for us because we lived in a different community, just like Quail Creek is to Oklahoma City. On weekends, it was difficult to get our food. I would get my roommate – his name was Bill Bell –
FI: Which school was this?
GF: This was Ohio State University.
FI: This was while you were at Ohio State. Okay.
GF: Bill Bell was our roommate. He had red hair. Terribly ugly. [both laugh] His father played second base for the New York Giants for years before they knew he was a Black man. When they found out he was black, they let him go. Again, he’d go over there, a very brilliant student, he’d go over to the restaurant and eat and bring our food to us. One day we decided we wasn’t gonna have that. We went with Bill, sat at the table with Bill, and ate. When we went to pay our bill, they broke the dishes and told us to keep our butts out of there. Wasn’t easy.
FI: Wow.
GF: Just so close, there at the Ohio State Union. Had all the privileges, but across the street you couldn’t buy a sandwich.
FI: Was it that type of environment the whole time you were at Ohio State? That was while we were really segregated as a country.
GF: It got better, gradually. My name was Finley. There was a boy from Galveston and from El Reno. Finley would sit here. The boy named Ferguson would sit on the aisle. He turned his body to me. The entire class, that’s where he sat, with his feet in the aisle to keep him sitting beside me. Finley used to be a very playful guy. He didn’t come to class much. The one time he ever spoke to me was, “Turn your paper, Finley, so I can see what you’re writing.” He’d write what I wrote. We got to be good friends after.
FI: So, it was through him having the need to see your paper so that he could pass his course.
GF: Yes, and we’re taking our Master’s in Chemistry at Ohio State at that time.
FI: And you did eventually become friends?
GF: Oh yes. Got to the place he’d come to my house. We’d sit on the front porch. We were good friends.
FI: That was an interesting way to start a friendship.
GF: It was.
FI: How do you think you were able to have the discipline to deal with those kinds of experiences?
GF: Home training. My mother and father thought it’d be better to take it easy than it would be to get out there and fight too much. They were criticized frequently because some of the things the NAACP would do, they didn’t approve of.
FI: I can understand that.
GF: But that was their feeling; that’s the way they were.
FI: I can understand that because it was different approaches to solving problems.
GF: Yes, and each problem was needed.
FI: Right. Each aspect of the Civil Rights Movement was important.
GF: The group - the funny thing I run into now is I’m not evil. The world’s been good to me. It’s pretty easy to say that. Some of the things we do, we have to be careful about. You don’t stand still while you’re down.
FI: That’s true.
GF: If we aren’t careful, some of the things we’ve gained we’ll lose.
FI: That’s so true.
GF: I have no malice in my heart, thank God, and I never shall. I came to Oklahoma City. Did you know where my office was?
FI: Yes, I have been to you as a doctor when you were on 2nd Street, right in the Finley Building, catty corner from that church.
GF: That’s the African Methodist Church?.
FI: The Cavalry Church.
GF: The Cavalry Church. Okay. There were a number of times we’d have a hiccup about that. My wife was getting out and marching. She’d have marched with them. I didn’t see that, but we didn’t fall out about it. She thought she should. I thought she shouldn’t. I think we need both ways to kind of keep it balanced.
FI: Was it your upbringing that kept you from wanting to take that approach?
GF: I think so.
FI: Because you were still able to break some barriers without using that approach.
GF: Let me tell you something else that you don’t know, that should be known. Do you know where the Jewel Theater was?
FI: Yes.
GF: I bought that lot back there. That used to be the Catholic church, and they had a Catholic priest that came there. He was a good man. Dr. Shules (?). He was my friend. I bought that place when they let the blacks go to the Catholic church downtown. They would use it as a church. I was great on real estate. I took the church and I made a duplex out of it. [laughs]
FI: [laughs] Where the Jewel Theater was?
GF: Yeah.
FI: You made it into a duplex?
GF: A duplex, yeah.
FI: Whew. There’s that contractor’s background.
GF: I made a duplex out of it and it was rented for $25 every month. After I got through with it and dressed it up a little bit, I still rented each side for $25 a month. I was criticized for doing that, but I did it. I still think I was right.
FI: When the Catholic church had been there, what do you remember about the Catholic church using the Jewel Theater for a church? That’s important history if you could remember.
GF: The house was behind the church.
FI: It was behind the church.
GF: The Jewel Theater faces 4th. This house faces this way.
FI: Okay so it was behind there.
GF: It was behind there, and I knew those James's real well. He had the Jay-Kola. I guess you don’t remember that.
FI: Yes. Mrs. Arabella James was one of my teachers in my master's program, and I went to school with Arabella. She graduated with my brother Bill. They had the Jay-Kola business. (Transcriber’s Note: Jay-Kola was an African-American bottling company established somewhere between 1918-1921.)
GF: Over on 9th Street?
FI: Yes.
GF: You could not live north of 9th Street. We attempted to buy a playground for our children on 8th and Lottie, and they would not sell it to you because that’s too high for the blacks.
FI: Do you remember about what year it was you were trying to buy that property? Was it in the ‘50s or ‘40s?
GF: It began to break in the ‘40s, but at first they would not sell it. I’ll tell you why.
FI: What reason would they tell you, Dr. Finley?
GF: “You’re black.” Mind you, the thing that was so interesting was my father was really black. I’m the blackest one in that family, and I was proud of it because I was so much like Daddy. I wanted to be black. I heard my mother tell my father this: “Sammy, when we married, it was two strikes against you. You weren’t black enough.” So, there you are. It’s interesting.
FI: Yes. So, when you were making that statement, you’re referring to some of the things that go with the opportunities, that either you’re not black enough, or you’re what they call “High Yellow.”
GF: [chuckles] Yeah. That’s what they called my wife. If you wanted to make her mad, ask her what she was. Oh boy. That disturbed her. Yeah she’d always be disturbed. They did it frequently. When you leave, if you’ll look at her father, his picture is on the wall in there. He’s just as white as this man here.
FI: I will look at it.
GF: I want you to. The house I was born in is on this wall right here. Recently, they stated that the house is on the historical register. Daddy built that house by himself. He wouldn’t let nobody help him. The joke was he’d tell his wife, “If you didn’t change the brand so much, I’d get through much quicker.”
[both chuckle]
FI: He built a house – [laughs]
GF: The house is out there. It’s on the historical list. The statement is because – well, I’ll show it to you before you leave.
FI: I would love to see that.
GF: Why was he that way? My older brother, Lord have mercy, was climbing up the cinnamon tree. It was three days before he got to a place where he stayed. He vowed his children would not end up like that. For that reason, he built the house himself. Nobody helped him. Up four hours before it’s time to go to work? Work on your house. Four after time for quitting? Work on your house.
FI: And he built it by himself?
GF: Every nail driven. In those days, they didn’t have electricity. They didn’t have telephone. He’d come by the lumber company and get it on his wagon and bring it out there. And by tomorrow had already used it.
FI: Well, that sure does explain the strong real estate gift and talent that you have displayed all these years. When you got the building that is down there on 2nd Street, did you purchase that building or did you build it?
GF: You opened another can of worms [both chuckle]. Mr. Cook, lived over where the fire department is now, you know where?
FI: On 8th Street?
GF: No no no. Right there on 2nd Street. There was a house back there and a fire department. He was ninety-two and his wife was ninety. They had asthma. They had heart attacks. I would go see them and stay there with them. One night he said, “I’d sure like to sell you this place so you could put your building here, but I’m afraid to.” The man was telling the truth. In my abstract, and I still have my abstract in the office, it read, “Not to be sold to anybody of Afro-American race.” I have it underscored. [chuckles]
FI: It’s in the abstract?
GF: It’s in the abstract. It’ll always be there as long as I live, unless he tears it out. “Not to be sold to anybody of African descent.” [to his grandson] Have you ever read that Geff?
Grandson: No.
GF: Well, it’s in there and it’s underscored.
FI: So that building, is it on the Historical Register, the Finley Building?
GF: Yeah.
FI: It is. Do you remember when it was placed on the Historical Register?
GF: Recently, within the last year. The house I was born in is on the Historical Record in Arkansas.
FI: That’s two historical properties that is associated with your name in your family. And then they honored you with the bridge, with the naming of the bridge.
GF: Yeah. I’m with a company now. They want to do something I don’t agree with, and I’m going to fight it.
FI: I can understand that. Is it related to your intellectual property and your name?
GF: We’ve got enough Finley on that street. The Finley Building, that’s written in the contract. It’s not sold. It’s leased. You know where the Garrett Brothers are on Broadway Extension?
FI: No.
GF: You don’t know it? Anyway, it’s a very wealthy company and it’s leased to them. They pay us every month. It’s been going on for four years. I asked them, what are you going to do with it? ‘We haven’t decided.’ [laughs] Now, you know they know what they’re going to do.
FI: They absolutely know what they’re going to do with that building.
GF: That’s a big company. They’re going to have lease offers like the Metropolitan. They bought 8 stories in the Kerr-McGee building that they want to turn into apartments. On the hill on 2nd Street, they’re building those apartments. It’s a very wealthy company. I’ll tell them, it’s too much Finley. I have friends, and some of them are people that don’t like them. So, there’s no Finley on this street.
FI: Well, I understand that Dr. Finley. You would understand that. You’ve been a businessman and you’ve been a doctor in this community. You know this community very well. You’ve been an active part of the church community. You’ve made an important contribution to our community, and that’s just one of the things that go with that kind of success.
GF: There’s one thing my wife was. She actually believed it’s more blessed to give that to receive. Do you believe that?
FI: Yes, I do.
GF: [to unknown female] What about you?
Unknown Female: In theory.
GF: She never was able to convince me. [laughs]
FI: Well, you were a businessman.
GF: No, no. I just couldn’t see that. At the end of the year, she’d figure our income tax. Honey, you were going to have to watch her. She was going to give you what you deserved. And then she’d tell me, “Daddy Boy, get yourself together. We’re going to Africa this summer to help some people that’s less fortunate.” We made four trips.
FI: To Africa?
GF: At our own expense.
FI: Where did you go? Good for your wife.
GF: I went to The Congo and we built a little clinic there. She’s a member of the Presbyterian church and she loved that church. Three summers we went to: [He gives the names of three Congolese villages here, but we’re uncertain as to their spelling]. We paid our own way and took his father with us each time. As a medical doctor, I knew I’d be busy. They were just as busy.
FI: These trips were charitable trips that you made. Did you have any time at all to enjoy being in Africa?
GF: Oh, I loved it. I’m sorry I didn’t go earlier and stay longer.
FI: Did you travel abroad any other places?
GF: eighty-four countries. We visited eighty-four countries during our marriage.
FI: Would you like to talk about some of those eighty-four countries, if there’s something or an experience that might have had special meaning to you?
GF: She did.
FI: Let’s talk about that.
GF: Every country she went to, she learned a lot about the language, a lot about what they liked and didn’t like. She spent her time doing that.
FI: Your wife?
GF: Oh Lord, and busy!
FI: Your wife was the inspiration to get you to these eighty-four countries.
GF: I obeyed, yes [both laugh].
FI: How long were you married to your wife?
GF: Sixty-seven years.
FI: And the secret?
GF: We never had a fuss. Nobody believes that.
FI: Sixty-seven years.
GF: She’d get after me about was working too much, and I’d tell her, ‘honey there will be a tomorrow.’ She’d say he’d go to bed and he’d be so tired I have to put his hind leg in the bed. I said after he got in bed, he slept like a horse. She’d stay there awake all night. About 5:00 or 6:00, she’d say, “I’m sure glad you didn’t let me flip my top last night, ‘cause I was getting ready to.”
FI: Sixty-seven years. Excellent.
GF: She was something else. I’m telling you. Now, when we would go to Africa with those ladies, she bought a Singer sewing machine. You ever see one of those deals?
FI: Yes.
GF: She’d buy bolts of goods, and in the morning, they’d be there around 5:30 or 6:00. They’d go out in the hall and they’d go to making dresses. They’d make form-fitting dresses, sleeveless dresses, all that kind of carrying on. By noon, this instrument was popping. Then they’d spend the afternoon talking about New York. They could not conceive of the idea of ten million people in one city. They couldn’t see that. How do you feel? How do you do this? They couldn’t – she never could listen. She would talk with them like that, and then that night, she was a music major. She was crazy about a perfect tone. Of course, that didn’t mean a thing to me; I didn’t care about a perfect tone. They would sit in there and sing until 11:00 or 12:00 at night, and she’d enjoy that.
FI: What about you? You weren’t that much into music, but once she had worked with the people and they would sing, were you able to enjoy it as well?
GF: I’d sing with her, out of tune.
FI: You joined it! [laughs] That’s good.
GF: I sang with them
FI: You put up a fuss for a while and then you’d just go on and break down and enjoy it too. [laughs] Thank God for your wife.
GF: I never shall forget one thing she didn’t approve of.
FI: Let’s talk about that.
GF: She would take our clothes and put it on a hanger where they’d follow up. Still had seven-hundred miles to go in the country in an airplane. I’d come home and she’d have these dresses and coats and I would have mud on my elbows. She said, “Now how did you get that, Daddy Boy?” She’d wash those clothes every night. Toughie told her, “I’ll show you.” When I got ready to deliver those babies, sometimes you had palm leaves and sometimes you didn’t. And you’d sit on the ground so long, you’d get tired and just – you know.
FI: Dig your elbows into the dirt.
GF: And that’s-
FI: How you got it.
GF: So he, one day when I was in there and having a lot of problems, he got them and brought her up there. We didn’t have a problem about that anymore. I think she just had to see to believe.
FI: When you were in those countries, in addition to the medical things that you were doing there, I know that you had the office that was on 2nd Street. Dr. Finley, did you ever have your medical practice in another location?
GF: 324 ½ East 2th. That’s right over Dunjee’s office.
FI: Roscoe Dunjee’s?
GF: Yep.
FI: Down there by where the Aldridge Theater was?
GF: Yes. There, I’d stay in the office until 11:00 or 12:00 at night. He’d be sitting out on the sidewalk there and we’d sit out there and laugh and talk before I’d head home.
FI: You really knew Roscoe Dunjee. Would you like to talk about him in your interview, the type of person he was? Any special memories that you have with Roscoe Dunjee?
GF: I liked Roscoe a lot. He had many good points, but he was a fighter.
FI: Did you know him before he started The Black Dispatch?
GF: No.
FI: Did you know him after the paper had gotten started?
GF: Oh yeah. He had the paper started in ’14. I didn’t come out here until ’37.
FI: You came to Oklahoma in 1937.
GF: To work.
FI: To work. Had you visited Oklahoma before you came out here to work?
GF: Yes. I came out here and got married.
FI: Is that what brought you here, your marriage?
GF: Yes.
GF: I finished medicine May the 25th. I married her June 30th. No, June the 20th. [to grandson] The girl come to clean up yet?
Grandson: She’s going to come back.
GF: Well when she comes back, she can go ahead and do whatever it is she needs to do. [Pause. Rustling paper] That’s the insurance company my wife took out when I was practicing medicine. We had a lady with the insurance company finance it. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to clean the house. Tuesday and Thursday the nurse comes and checks to see how we’re doing.
FI: So you have in-home medical care by a nurse coming in. Dr. Finley, we have about ten minutes. We’ve talked about your wife. We’ve talked about your son a little bit, and your trips to Africa and the eighty-four countries you’ve visited. I would like to make sure in the last ten minutes that you’re able to talk about any of the organizations that are important to you. I knew Dr. Robert Kennedy, and he always admired the work that you did with MedaPhor. If you would like to talk about any of that work or any other topic, please do so. (Transcriber’s Note: MedaPhor provides training for postgraduate medical professionals.)
GF: Robert Kennedy, the dentist?
FI: Yes, the orthodontist.
GF: Always a good man.
FI: He was a very wonderful human. Excellent human being, just an exceptionally wonderful person. He greatly and deeply loved, respected, and admired you.
GF: I did him too.
FI: He told me that it was because of you that he maintained a commitment that he maintained to the MedaPhor organization, even if he had to make a lot of sacrifices. He would always say, “I owe it to Dr. Finley.” Would you talk about that organization a little bit, and anything else you would like to talk about?
GF: That was a very important organization. I think it still is. When I came to this city, pardon the personal [pause], they didn’t have any black physicians at any hospital. I came here from Chicago. Hadn’t been there long, just up there, going to Cook County. They had a medical clinic there that we went to. They wouldn’t allow us to belong to the medical organization here, so they thought I was from Chicago. I’ll go up there. They organized Baptist Hospital. Do you remember when they organized it?
FI: No. I don’t remember when they organized Baptist Hospital.
GF: Well, some sisters gave them a place at Penn Square. They gave them that whole place, but they wouldn’t accept it because they said they wanted to be a bigger place than Penn Square would allow them to do. They did. I was on the Board of Directors at that hospital.
FI: When they organized Baptist?
GF: Yeah. I applied for leave for the membership at Saint Anthony Hospital – let’s see. When was that? That was December 23, 1937. I got on the staff in 1946.
FI: Wait, you applied for Saint Anthony in December of ’37, and you got on the staff in 1946?
GF: 1946. I’ll tell you another guy that got on a few days later. Dr. Thompson – do you know him?
FI: Was that Gerard Thompson’s father?
GF: Yeah.
FI: Yes. I knew him.
GF: He came later. When I went in, I asked the sister – I liked her because she was frank – I said, “Sister, you won’t let me on your staff. Why?” You know what she told me? “You’re black.” That isn’t all the story. Their criteria – you must be a member of County Medical, or you can’t be a member of Saint Anthony Hospital.
FI: You must be a what?
GF: A member of County Medical.
FI: County Medical Organization, or you couldn’t be on.
GF: You couldn’t go to Saint Anthony. So when they told me that, she explained to me why, and I could see that. My wife, again, some things she just didn’t like. For one-hundred-and-six days, I’d go and worry that lady every morning.
[both laugh]
GF: She said, “You’re back again, doctor?” I said, “I’ll be back tomorrow.”
FI: Was that at Saint Anthony that you were making all those trips?
GF: That’s right, this very Saint Anthony down here. But later on, I was on the staff. The lady in the OB-GYN –
FI: That’s the orderly protest.
GF: The OB-GYN, she’d been there twenty-one years, and she told me she couldn’t work with a Black doctor. Later on, she got to be my best friend. When you’re delivering babies – I don’t know if you’ve had a child or not –
FI: No.
GF: - but you’d go in at 4:00 in the morning and it’d be 6:00 before your baby comes. You know that?
FI: Yes, I know that. You don’t know when it’s going to come.
GF: At first, she wouldn’t speak to me. Later on, she’d bring me coffee, bring me sandwiches. We got to be just like that. So, things weren’t all that bad, just bad enough.
FI: A lot of what you had to experience was being the ‘first,’ and sometimes without a group, ‘the first and only.’ I did some research with the first Black psychiatrist for ten years in Atlanta named Dr. William P. Sapp. We did some research called, “The Black Syndrome,” and it is researching people that are the ‘first black’ and ‘the only black’ in certain situations and the impact that it has on them. I hope to publish that.
GF: One day, we were at Saint Anthony. My wife was very sick. In a room about this size, when the nurse would come in, she’d do this to separate those beds so the doctor could get in there and examine her. [There’s some kind of movement. Presumably he’s demonstrating something to the interviewer.] I couldn’t stand that. I went and told the sister about it. She said, “Well, that’s the way it is.” So I told her I was going to take my wife to Mayo Clinic.” She said, “Your wife won’t last.” I said, “Well, she’ll die trying to get there.” I took her to Mayo Clinic, and the last time she attended that clinic, when she came home, she told me “Daddy, I’ve had been there thirty-one times.”
FI: Your wife had been to Mayo Clinic.
GF: Thirty-one times.
FI: What was she being treated for? Do you care to say?
GF: Coronary occlusion is what she died from. She got to know some of those ladies up there and they knew her. We were very, very good friends. The way that started was they wouldn’t let me go to the meetings here. [to grandson] You don’t remember Dr. Trotman, do you? No, he was too young. He don’t remember. We went up there, and I was on the black board up there [unclear. It sounds like twenty-eighty-five, but that doesn’t mean anything to me]. That’s how I met this particular doctor. He invited us to come up there. He was very kind and very helpful.
FI: Could you tell us what MedaPhor Stands for?
GF: MedaPhor – Medical, Dental, and Pharmacy.
FI: Dr. Finley, is there a special message that you would like to go out on this tape that you would like to give to young people coming up today who would like to go into the health professions? Do you have any advice that you would like to give them?
GF: Be patient but persist.
FI: You would advise them to be patient...
GF: ...But persist.
FI: Is there any special message that you would like to give us generally, a special comment as we end your interview?
GF: I think blacks in the United States are the most fortunate people in the world. I’ve been to eighty-four countries, and I would prefer the United States to anyplace in the world. With all our faults, we’ve been very fortunate. [to grandson] I don’t think you believe that do you?
Grandson: Doesn’t matter.
FI: He has his own interview, so he’s going to get his in. He’s been exposed to so much, having been able to live with you and to have the lifestyle that you have earned through your hard work and your reputation in the community. He will be able to give his ideas in his interview because he is another generation. That is a voice that we’re passing the baton.
GF: We need that.
FI: We need his voice because he’s your link to our future.
GF: I’m 99. He’s 29.
FI: And he’s an artist, so he’s going to get to give his worldview.
GF: [protesting lightly] But I’m 99 and he’s 29.
FI: Point well taken.
GF: I think we get along fine, considering.
FI: Well, you know he’s right here. He’s been answering that phone and you made sure he sat in with your interview. That resemblance is there. We’re so grateful, thankful, you gave us some pearls and some wisdoms and some high points in your life. Thank you for our interview for Oklahoma Voices Centennial Project.
GF: Thank you for inviting me.
End of Interview