Description:
John Adams talks about his life in northeast Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewee: John Adams
Interviewer: Melba Holt
Interview Date: 11/15/07
Interview Location: Ralph Ellison Library, Oklahoma City
Transcribed on: 01/21/2018
Melba Holt (MH): Good evening, Mr. Adams, how are you today?
John Adams (JA): Oh, just fine, Miss Holt.
MH: We are just really thrilled that you would participate in the Oklahoma Voices Centennial Project. We’ve been interviewing families, trying to preserve the history of some of our more prominent families in Oklahoma City. In the interviews I’ve been doing, I’ve carefully selected people who, who I have observed over the years who have had some strong family tie, and that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to interview you. So could you give me your name?
JA: John H Adams, Senior.
MH: And your birthdate?
JA: 5-28-1943.
MH: And where we are?
JA: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
MH: And the…?
JA: Ralph Ellison Library.
MH: Where were you born?
JA: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
MH: And where did you grown up?
JA: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
MH: What was that like?
JA: Oh, it was great. It was great. (laughter) I had a great childhood. It was wonderful.
MH: Who were your parents?
JA: Ernest and Martha Adams.
MH: And what were they like?
JA: Beautiful. Beautiful, just beautiful parents.
MH: What kind of work did they do?
JA: My dad was a custodian, he worked at a bank, and Mother did a little domestic work.
MH: Okay. And did you have any brothers and sisters?
JA: I had one sibling, a sister that was a little older than I am, and her name was Catherine.
MH: Okay. And what was she like?
JA: She was a beautiful girl. Um, Catherine was very talented, just a beautiful lady, young lady. And as she got older, she was a beautiful woman. And of course there’s eight years difference between the two of us.
MH: Oh.
JA: And we actually didn’t get close until later years because of the age differences. And I…I wish she was still here, but Catherine passed about 14 years ago.
MH: Did she? I’m sorry to hear that. Could you tell me where you went to school from elementary up to your professional schooling, please?
JA: Inman Page Elementary School. Oh, you went there also?
MH: I went to Page.
JA: Okay.
MH: And I taught at Page.
JA: Oh is that right?
MH: Mm-hmm.
JA: Okay. And I went to Moon Junior High and Douglass High School.
MH: Okay. And your early memories of the school, do you want to share any of the school memories? Your school friends, activities, what kind of clubs you were in when you were in school?
JA: Uh, when I was in elementary school, there was, I participated in, I think they called it the Gray Y, if I remember correctly. And we used to play baseball and, uh, did a little track and field. And in junior high I joined the band and was in the marching band under Mr. Perry. And when I went to high school, I also joined a marching band there under, uh, Mr. Buford. And I think Mr. Perry came a little later. And also, I was in the choir under Leroy Hicks.
MH: Oh, we had a good interview with Kenneth Kilgore, and he talked about Leroy Hicks.
JA: Oh, is that right? Yeah, he was a wonderful man. He was crazy.
(laughter)
MH: Well, you the second person that said that today.
(laughter)
JA: Ah, he crazy, yeah.
MH: What instrument did you, did you play?
JA: I played the slide trombone.
MH: Okay, well, you, you confirmed that about his personality, as well.
(laughter)
MH: When you were singing in the choir with Mr. Hicks, what was your, what did you sing?
JA: Baritone.
MH: Baritone.
JA: Baritone-bass.
MH: That’s excellent. Uh, do you have a memory of the names of your grandparents?
JA: Yes, uh, my grandfather—Now, on my mother’s side I do.
MH: Okay.
JA: Uh, my grandfather was Robert H. Rolffe. And my grandmother was Nanny Rolffe.
MH: mm-kay
JA: And she, her, her maiden name was Nanny Mace.
MH: Okay.
JA: My grandfather was in the Land Run, 18—okay.
MH: He was in the Land Run.
JA: Yeah, he was in the Land Run.
MH: Tell us what he told you about that.
JA: Really, he never sat down and told me about that. It was passed on through family history, because I was only about four years old when Grandfather passed.
MH: Okay.
JA: So I never really sit down and talked to him about it, but he was a little boy when his family came here during the Land Rush. And they came from Topeka, Kansas.
MH: Okay.
JA: And he had five siblings with him. I think he had three brothers and three, well, no three sisters and two brothers.
MH: Okay. Do you know where they staked that land at? Do you know where they actually staked the, put their stakes down? Do you have the, do you recall?
JA: No, I don’t. No, I don’t.
MH: Well, it’s good that you’re able to get the fact that he was in the Land Run, because that’s now a part of the history for your children. Did you have a nickname?
JA: Yeah.
MH: What is it? (laughter) Can you say it out in your interview?
(laughter)
JA: Yeah.
(laughter)
MH: What is your nickname, Mr. Adams?
JA: They called, they called me Phat John.
MH: Phat John?
JA: P-H-A-T John.
MH: Okay.
JA: Mm-kay.
MH: Who gave you that nickname?
JA: Uh, Gerard Thompson, probably Gerard Thompson.
(laughter)
MH: Okay. Could you tell me who your best friends are?
JA: Kenneth Watson, Judge Kenneth Watson, DeSoto Bell, and Gerard Thompson, and Webber Thomas. Those are some of my best friends.
MH: Okay. Uh, when you were in school, do you remember enjoying being in school when you were in public school?
JA: Oh yeah. Oh, we had a beautiful time during that time. Course, during that time, it was not integrated or anything like that, but we had a magnificent time because there were so many things for us to do, because everyone stayed within the same locality, or area.
MH: That’s true.
JA: And, uh, things were—You know, every played with everyone. Everyone knew each other.
MH: That’s true.
JA: Of course, things today are quite different, because things are so diversified. People stay in all those areas in Oklahoma City, whereas back in those times, blacks were not allowed to stay past 4th Street when I first started at Page.
MH: I remember that.
JA: You remember that?
MH: Yes, I do.
JA: I didn’t know you were that old, Melba.
MH: I’m not that old, but I remember that.
JA: Hell, well you don’t remember that. You were just told that.
MH: I can’t—Yeah, I was told that. But we lived on 4th Street, so we met one of those markers.
JA: Okay.
MH: We, we, we lived on all the boundaries.
JA: Okay.
MH: We lived on 4th Street, 8th Street, 23rd. Um, could you tell us a little bit about your training from high school? Take us from you training in high school to the training that you had that caused you to enter into your profession.
JA: Really, I had no idea that I would be working in the funeral profession.
MH: Okay.
JA: When I went to college—I graduated from Langston University—I majored in sociology.
MH: Okay.
JA: I, uh, in high school, my senior year, I worked at St. Anthony’s Hospital washing dishes.
MH: Mm-hmm.
JA: Making 55-cents an hour for four hours an evening and eight hours on a Saturday morning. And when I went off to college, uh, I, um, came home during the summer of my freshman year and worked there. I was asked by my uncles if I would work at the funeral home that summer. Well, I, you know, I was very apprehensive.
(laughter)
JA: Scared, nervous. Really didn’t want to.
(laughter)
JA: So what I did, talked to my mother, she said go and give it a try. So I went down, and the first day I went there, I was exposed to so much, so I just, thought I might want to work there for that summer. And I have been doing this since 1963.
MH: Wow.
JA: I became licensed in 1971, because after I left Langston, I went into the military. And I graduated from mortuary school as the first Black with a BS degree in…well, what, it was, B, yeah, BS degree in mortuary science.
MH: You were the first one?
JA: Oh yeah, first, first Black.
MH: From what school? First Black from what school?
JA: UCO. Well, now, well it’s UCO now. It was Central State.
MH: Oh, that’s good history.
JA: Well, that’s the mortuary school now.
MH: That’s still right. That’s good.
JA: Okay, okay (laughter) That’s the mortuary school.
MH: That’s good.
JA: Okay.
MH: With a BS?
JA: With a BS.
MH: Okay.
JA: And, uh, I had also graduated from Langston, but after I graduated from Langston I got drafted into the Service.
MH: What, what branch?
JA: I was in the Army.
MH: Okay.
JA: For two years.
MH: Okay.
JA: And while I was in the Army, my job consisted of a psychology, social work technician. I became NCO/IC of my department. And I was the first Black in that.
MH: Okay.
JA: As a NCO IC
MH: Okay.
JA: Okay. And, uh, after I got out of the Service—
MH: What, what exactly did a NCO IC do? What was that? What kind of job was that?
JA: That’s a Non-Commissioned Officer.
MH: Okay.
JA: In other words, that’s a, from sergeant, um, it’s not an officer. A NCO is, well NCO is Non-Commissioned Officer In Charge.
MH: Okay.
JA: Okay. But NC—it’s a Non-Commissioned Officer.
MH: Okay.
JA: You’re not an officer as such. You are an enlisted man with a rank.
MH: Okay.
JA: Okay.
MH: And you can supervise?
JA: Yeah, you can supervise.
MH: Okay.
JA: So, after that, after I got out of Service I went to mortuary school.
MH: Okay.
JA: And I graduated from mortuary school in 1971, where I got my license, and that’s what I’ve been doing ever since. And I’m president, working at Rolfe Funeral Home, and the president of Rolfe Funeral Home.
MH: You’re the president?
JA: Yes.
MH: Okay, and you’ve been there all that time. You’ve helped to build it into one of the leading businesses in Oklahoma City.
JA: Thank you.
MH: Cause I’ve been watching you all over the years, I, I’ve noticed that we have a street named after the Rolffes. Could you tell us where that street is?
JA: That street is in front of old Rolfe Funeral Home, which once was 10th Street, NE 10th Street.
MH: Right.
JA: And it’s just a little section of a block.
MH: Right.
JA: Between Ellis—no, not Ellis, I’m sorry—uh, Missouri on the west boundary and Eastern on the east boundary. Now, let’s back up. I think they have since changed the name of that street.
MH: Uh, not the last time that I saw it. I saw—uh, it would have been in the last year that they changed the name.
JA: Well, I, you know I haven’t been there in quite a while, been down in—
MH: I pass in that area a lot.
JA: Okay.
MH: Cause that old Rolfe Funeral Home is now a Kappa—
JA: Kappa.
MH: Building. It’s a building for the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity.
JA: Fraternity, right.
MH: Now, I know, uh, you, don’t you all have some members of your family that belong to that fraternity?
JA: I belong to the Kappa.
MH: You belong to the Kappa Alpha Psi?
JA: As a matter of fact, your brother and I were shipmates.
(laughter)
MH: Oh Lord, Smoky Bill Holt. I didn’t know you were on line with Smoky Bill Holt.
JA: Yeah.
MH: When you asked me about it early.
JA: it was, there were thirty-six of us.
MH: I’m gonna let him know that his frat brother asked about him today.
JA: mm-hmm, yeah.
MH: But you all have tied down that little piece of land
JA: mm-hmm.
MH: And put a street sign with Rolfe Funeral Home on the street. I think—
JA: Robert H Rolfe.
MH: Well, it’s—Robert H Rolfe, which is, again, one of your family members.
JA: Right.
MH: So we wanna capture that distinction and that business acumen in this interview. And we want to know the role that you’ve played in it, as well as your family. Now would you tell us about your family? Now, you are married?
JA: Right.
MH: Could you name your wife and each one of your, your children if you have children?
JA: I have a beautiful wife.
MH: Yes.
JA: Elizabeth Adams is my wife. My oldest son is John Adams, Jr. Kenneth Adams. Then I have a son Michael. Michael is Brown. Okay, and then also I have Ernest Adams, Alicia Adams, Stephen Adams, and Katrina Adams. So I have seven wonderful kids.
MH: Do you have any grandchildren?
JA: Oh yeah (laughs).
MH: Well let's, let's, let's see if we can't get those grandbabies in.
JA: Okay. now, can't name all the grandbabies well (laughs)
MH: Okay, give me the numbers. Let's bring this wife over.
JA: We have nine grandbabies.
MH: You have nine grandbabies.
JA: Nine. Right.
MH: Do you have any great-grandbabies?
JA: No. No, no, no not yet.
MH: We’re getting way off in there.
JA: Nah.
MH: Okay, do you know...can you go back any further on your family tree? Mr. Adams, in your interview we don't want to leave anybody out that, you know, if you know something about African or Indian heritage.
JA: Okay. Right, now--
MH: You know that you had somebody--you knew that one of your grandfathers was supposed to have helped with the Land Run, participated in that.
JA: Right.
MH: Do you have any other ancestry that you might want to say for the sake of your family listening to this?
JA: Well, I had--
MH: That have been handed down to you.
JA: I had a aunt named Thelma Johnson.
MH: Okay.
JA: Her husband's name was Cody Johnson. And...he's in Oklahoma history as an Indian interpreter.
MH: Okay.
JA: Cody was very well off because, uh, he received a lot of Indian property from the Indians. And, as a matter of fact, my family today receives, uh, royalty rights from oil in Seminole County, and it's due to Cody Johnson.
MH: Okay. And his inheritance?
JA: And his inheritance, right.
MH: Excellent. One of the things that, um, I had wanted to, to ask you--One of the things that I wanted to ask you was, uh, how long have you been married to your wife?
JA: We've been married 23 years.
MH: 23 years?
JA: Right, Right.
MH: That's good.
JA: That's a good question, Melba, you put me on the spot you know that?
(laughter)
MH: I, you're in an interview. I have to do my work. Uh, what is--Somebody being married 23 years, that is quite an achievement. Mr. Adams, I would like you to tell anyone listening to this interview I'm doing with you, what are two or three things that you think help make a good marriage? What are some of the things that a person wanting to stay married over three years or three minutes--
(laughter)
MH: What, what are some things that you, you would say from your experience of being with your lovely wife for the last 23 years, having seven children and all the nine grandchildren, what were some of the things that you think you'd like to say in this interview that would help somebody to be able to stay in their marriage?
JA: A lot of prayer.
MH: Lot of prayer.
JA: Lot of prayer, yes.
MH: That's--
JA: Keep God first.
MH: Keeping God first.
JA: Trust your spouse.
MH: And trust in your spouse.
JA: Right.
MH: Excellent. Uh, we would like for you to share your religious beliefs before we close this interview. Would you like to share your faith with us?
JA: Sure.
MH: Okay.
JA: I am a member of True Vine Ministries, and my pastor is FL Wilson. And we are located in Spencer, Oklahoma. And...I am not sure as to the years I have been involved in True Vine Ministries, because I grew up in 5th Street Baptist Church. Where, by the way, my grandfather purchased the land for 5th Street, where it stands now, due to the fact that during that time Blacks could not own property beyond 4th Street, north of 4th Street. He was a very fair-skinned gentleman, so they thought he was White. He purchased that property. So, that property still stands--well, the property is--the church still stands on that property today. And also I, my wife is a member of True Vine, which she has been there much longer than I have. And she is one of the secretaries at True Vine. And so that lovely voice when you call True Vine is hers.
MH: I'm gonna have to remember that.
(laughter)
MH: I sang over their with a group of people who had practiced with clinician from out of town. We gave a big concert a couple years ago with James Willis and some other people.
JA: Oh, I remember that. I remember that.
MH: We sang--
JA: The Prospect? Right.
MH: Right, the Prospect. We were in a choir workshop. That is one of the most beautiful churches I've been in--
JA: Well thank you.
MH: And that huge choir stand that goes up in that elevation.
JA: It looks like it goes up forever, doesn't it?
MH: Uh-huh, it's like the stairway to heaven. So, I'm glad to meet you and your wife. And, and I did attend 5th Street as a child, so I do remember the Rolfes as a child during that period. I would like to ask you what your hopes and your dreams are for your children. If you would like to share that with us.
JA: I...hope each one of them becomes successful, each one...maintain good health, and that they are prosperous as far as financially. And, uh, I, I have, um, one of my sons now that is a, has his own business. And he's in Dallas, Texas, now.
MH: What's the name of his--the son?
JA: It's called Vintage Movers.
MH: Okay.
JA: And, uh, I have one of my sons now that is working with me over at the funeral home.
MH: And his name?
JA: His name is Ernest Adams.
MH: Okay.
JA: And that's John Adams, Jr that has the moving company. And, uh, one of my daughters is a phlebotomist at, uh, McBride Hospital. And one is also a schoolteacher at Marcus Garvey. And then I have another son--excuse me (coughs)
MH: Mm-hmm.
JA: That is, uh, also working in Texas. And I have two more that are finding their niche.
MH: They looking for their niche.
JA: Right.
MH: Well, they will find their--
JA: Oh yeah.
MH: Sometimes it takes more time for some children than others, but they have a good foundation. They have a good resource base.
JA: Right.
MH: So they, they--You're still here, so they're fortunate, because you can still help guide them with that. I would like to ask you what your reflections are, uh, this is on a kind of sad note, uh--One of the things that I would like to find out from some of the people in my interviews is what you remember about, uh, April the 19th, when we had the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995. What do you remember about that particular day, where you were when that occurred, and what you remember about that experience?
JA: I remember leaving my house that morning, going to work, and as I let my garage door down, my dog came in and the explosion shook my garage door. And I stayed approximately four to five miles from where the bomb site was. And it just, blew that thing on the hinges and even my dog had to turn around to see if anything was coming behind him, you know.
MH: Right.
JA: And as I got to the corner of 36th and Bartel I saw the bomb truck going. And I thought, "That's what that was. They evidently detonated a bomb at the sheriff's range, which is probably about two miles from my house." So, I thought no more about it until I turned my radio on and found out the Murrah Building was bombed. And that bomb truck was apparently going that direction. And my whole day was just--I was numb. I was numb. We listened to it on the radio, and by me being a mortician--
MH: Oh yeah.
JA: I thought...of some of the destruction that it...this has probably done to some of the people that were in there. That...their bodies would just be destroyed. And um, it was one of those things in which...the whole time...that they were searching for the remains, I was ready to just leave that profession.
MH: Oh I know.
JA: Because I didn't think I could take it.
MH: I know.
JA: Because of some of the things that I saw.
MH: Oh I know.
JA: But, it was also a time in which I was happy to have passed in my life. And I hope I never experience anything like that again.
MH: I understand, because you survived it in the business you're in.
JA: Right, right.
MH: I understand that because I was in the insurance business and the counselling business. And I worked through it, but I had to stop working for a long time. And I'm back, you know, I'm trying to feel my way back into, uh, get back into my profession, and I'm studying things that help people to recover from trauma.
JA: Mm-hmm.
MH: And, and I'm writing about those things that I learned in this process.
JA: hmm.
MH: So I'm really thankful that you survived it, your business survived it, and, uh, I'm we're, we're--
JA: And you were involved in that thing.
MH: Yeah, you know.
JA: Mm-hmm.
MH: I was very involved. As an insurance agent, people were killed, they were, you know, their homes were messed up, their, their, you know, they were hurt.
JA: It was devastating.
MH: It was devastating. And on the counseling end, it was devastating.
JA: Right.
MH: Same types of issues. Uh, people had tremendous losses. Uh, uh, we, we know that Oklahoma is a strong state of survival. And from that experience, because of the way people handled it in Oklahoma, they developed something that is known around the world as the Oklahoma Standard for dealing with traumatic events, critical incidents. And so that is one of the things that happened here that people still study from all over the world in critical incidents.
JA: Right.
MH: And so, I wanted to not--we, was kind of hard to nail down this interview with you Mr. Adams, your schedule was hectic, but
(laughter)
MH: We got it in. We persevered, and you were able to come to this interview. We appreciate you coming, and we appreciate you sharing so openly about your work and about the advice for families, about the hopes and dreams for your children. We want to preserve this interview permanently for, uh, in the Oklahoma Room. And thank you for being an Oklahoma Voice.
JA: You're welcome, and I think you are doing a great job.
MH: Thank you.
JA: Okay, appreciate it.