Description:
Huretta Walker Dobbs talks about growing up in northeast Oklahoma City in the 1940s and 1950s.
Sheldon Beach: My name is Sheldon Beach. I'm here with the Metropolitan Library System as a part of our Northeast Storytelling Project that we're doing with Blackspace Oklahoma. And we are interviewing Huretta Dobbs today. How are you doing this morning?
Huretta Walker Dobbs: I'm doing great. How about you?
SB: I'm doing good, doing good. So, to start off, can I get you to state your name and spell it for me?
HWD: Yes. H-U-R-E-T-T-A. Dobbs: D-O-B-B-S. And it's Walker Dobbs. I like to use that too. That's my maiden name.
SB: Okay.
HWD: Right. Huretta Walker Dobbs.
SB: All right. So, to start off, do you know how your family got to Oklahoma?
HWD: Yes, they were born—no—they arrived in Oklahoma at young ages, yes.
SB: Where were they from originally?
HWD: My dad, from Texas and my mom, from Alma, Arkansas.
SB: And do you know when they got to Oklahoma?
HWD: No, I don't.
SB: This is before you were born?
HWD: Oh, yes. Yes.
SB: And you were born here?
HWD: I was born in, in—yes, I was born in Oklahoma, yes.
SB: Where, where in Oklahoma, were you born?
HWD: I was born in Okmulgee, actually born in a community west of Okmulgee named Nuyaka, N-U-Y-A-K-A. I believe it's an Indian name.
SB: And when did you come to Oklahoma City?
HWD: We came to Oklahoma City and, hm… when I was in the fifth grade. So, what would that have made me? Probably 10. Yeah.
SB: Do you remember anything about that? About moving to Oklahoma City?
HWD: Not the actual move I don't, but we moved to, first moved from Purcell, Oklahoma. We had been there about a little over a year, and we moved into an area, that was the country. And at that time, it was near Trice Hill Cemetery, which is 50th and Coltrane, I believe. And so where was I now? So, okay. So, we moved there, and then I went to school, the elementary school in an elementary school that was later named Harrison, but it was not Harrison when we first started.
SB: What do you remember about going to elementary school?
HWD: I remember a few of the friends that I had, and I don't remember any, any of the teachers, but I remember the names of the kids that went to school with me.
SB: And do you remember what year that was about, about when, when you came here?
HWD: Probably ‘40.
SB: Okay. So then, have you always lived in northeast Oklahoma City?
HWD: Yes, I have. Went to school, Dunbar Elementary School for one semester, then to Douglass High School, at that time it was 7-12.
SB: What was Douglass like back then?
HWD: It was exciting. Kids. We were just excited to be there. I remember the first day I went to enroll and that was the largest building I remember ever seeing then. And so many steps, it seemed to me. So, we went to enroll in there. I met someone who, a bit later, we became friends. We started talking then and we became best friends for a long time. Yeah, I remember at Dunbar, which is the elementary school that I went to that it was the sixth grade, the second semester of the sixth grade. And so, I was the new kid there and, I was a bit sort of bewildered, but then I was a pretty smart student that--so that worked out just fine. But it— wasn't comfortable being the new kid there. Yeah. Had great teachers. Mmm. So, when we—when I left elementary school, that's Douglass, that's when Douglass…
SB: What did you do when you were in Douglass? Did you play in the band or sing or anything like that? Were you in any clubs or anything?
HWD: Yes. I was in the Drum and Bugle Corps. And that in itself is a story, but I was in the Drum and Bugle Corps for one year. Y teens. I really enjoyed that. And that was with the teens and we would meet monthly and periodically, I'd go downtown, to meet with some of the other students in the white schools for Y teens. I also worked on the Trojan newspaper. And I liked that. And at one time I was the reporter for the band. I really like that. So, we did—I didn't have to play an instrument. I'm not—I had no musical ability at all. And but I really like going on the trips with the band and then writing about it, afterwards,
SB: Do you remember any of the teachers?
HWD: The teachers? Yes. I remember Mr. Elsie Williams. I think he was a seventh or eighth grade teacher--English. Mrs. Morrison, social studies, Mrs. MacMahon was an English teacher and she was the one that everybody—you know, kind of fearful of going to, because she demanded you worked; she demanded that. And, but I liked, I respected her, for sure. Mrs. Love, Home Ec., Mrs. Ricks, Home Ec. Mr. —Oh my goodness, I'm not remembering that, his name. Pierce! Mr. Pierce was a—what do you call it? Let me—Ah, industrial arts. Yes, he was the industrial arts teacher. One of the things I remember about Mr. Williams is we had read a story and I don't remember the story, but it was about a king and queen and that life. And I said, I wouldn't want to be, oh I would not want to be king. And he wanted to know why. And I said, that's just too much responsibility. And he said, Walker—at that time, the students were referred to by their last name—and he said, Walker, you will have responsibility for the rest of your life. And he went on to talk to the class about being responsible. But I thought since I was the oldest in my family that I really had a lot to do. Yeah.
SB: What kind of things did you do for fun back then? Where did you hang out?
HWD: YWCA was on Second and Stiles. And so, we could go there. They had dances on Fridays, some Fridays. And that was where, and that's where the Y teens met sometimes too. What the Y... That is where 235 went through there. Yes. So the Y, and then...there were the games. I didn't participate in any of the games, but I was a part of the ones who sold the candy to the...to the fans. So that was something that—a fundraiser, for some department, I'm not sure now. I remember that. I, I don't, I can't think of anything else, but that right now.
SB: What's the most memorable place in northeast Oklahoma City to you from back then? Like what do you remember the most? Like as far as a place.
HWD: Douglass, yeah, that's what I remember. Oh, I was going to tell you something about that last, that semester that I was in Dunbar. It seems as if Dunbar had an operetta, every year and I was chosen to be in the operetta. I could not sing, nor could I dance. And that—but I remember that. Oh my goodness and I was shy too. So anyway, I really remember that, but they packed—the auditorium was packed and, and it ran for two nights for Friday and Saturday, so that, I remember that. And, somebody yelled fire and I've never seen people move so fast to get out. But it—then there was no fire, but I remember that. So, Douglass was the place… I remember, the football teams, and going to the out of town to the foot— That was a big deal to get to go to, to out of town and especially Tulsa. We were big rivals with Tulsa, the football team. Yes, Booker T. Yes. So many people were there and that was a big crowd, really big crowd.
SB: What year did you graduate from high school?
HWD: 1951.
SB: And that was before the schools integrated.
HWD: Oh, yes. Yes.
SB: What do you remember from that time about—do you remember when integration happened? Do you remember what it was like before? Did it, did it even register to you at that point?
HWD: Well, you know, it seems that I was so busy just being a teenager and a student. I knew... Plus everything seemed as if everything we needed was right there. And, we had to go downtown. We caught the bus because they weren’t too many cars, parents hadn't too many cars at that time. But we were aware, but it just didn't seem to weigh a lot. I do remember when I mentioned about the Y teens. So, we would have this Y teen meeting with other school Y team members at the Y downtown. And so before the meeting, I got a call from the pre— from, one of the students—I think he was the president of the whole body—and telling me that because--I couldn't eat, I could not eat with them. So, I elected not to go. But otherwise we had fun walking to school every morning, and there I had a friend who lived nearby, and we would meet at a certain point and we would walk to school.
SB: And what did you do after high school?
HWD: After high school, I married. I worked a little bit, and then I got married.
SB: Where did you work?
HWD: Oh, first job for me was at a restaurant in Midwest City where my aunt was the cook, and I washed dishes on the weekends. And that was when school was going on, but otherwise I would work on the weekends when school was going on, but I would work in, every evening when school was out. Yeah. I was the dishwasher. I was her— and right now, I would call myself also her sous chef. Yes. Chopped onions. And got the baked potatoes, baked potatoes ready. And what else did I do? French fries. I operated the gadget for the French fries. So that was, that was good time. Yeah.
SB: And did you just do that until you got married?
HWD: I did that and I worked. There was a cafe on Second and Stiles. And I worked there as a few weeks as a waitress. I can't remember the name of it, but the—I remember the owner, the owners and the...it, well-known, uh, restaurant too. Their kids, their children were famous musicians. In that time they were—that couple and family was ahead of their times really. So I worked there, so that was my work career before marriage.
SB: Do you remember any of the other businesses around that neighborhood from back then?
HWD: Yeah. There there was a rest—a cafe on one of the corners from the school Douglass, and Butler's was the name and he sold barbecue and hot links. He always ran out and we always had to wait. Then that was on one corner. Then across the street, on the next, the street over, there was also a restaurant where the kids would hang out, buy their lunch and hang out and, then later there was...oh my I have forgotten it. But anyway, there was a place that, a young couple had a place where the kids could come and hang out. I can't think of the name of it now, but I sure like that one because there was this jukebox and our friends would just go there. Movie theater was set. yes. movie theater was Fourth Street and so of course Fourth Street was some place. Oh! So speaking of the businesses, there was, there were drug stores. There was a record shop. There was a cleaners. Hm, funeral home, grocery, a pool hall. That's what I remember.
SB: I knew most of those are gone now. Are there, is there anything there that you wish was still around?
HWD: I'm not thinking of anything right now. No, I'm not thinking… It would've been nice to see, to see the records—But they don't buy records anymore. But that's all I can—that's all I'm thinking of right now. Hmm, but I'm sure going to think of it afters, you know, come up with a list. I'm sure.
SB: Yeah. That's how it works, right?
HWD: Yeah. Yeah. Dry cleaners was the— drug store, theater. Two. Later, there was the second theater that was closer to our home. Yeah.
SB: What have you noticed that has changed the most about northeast Oklahoma City over the years?
HWD: Most recent--the influx of new homes. The urban renewals removal of homes, and recent more playgrounds for the kids, the parks.
SB: What do you remember about when urban renewal started? ‘Cause I know they tore down a lot of buildings and a lot of places just went away. Do you remember any of that?
HWD: Yes. The movie theater that was on Bath Street--that has gone. There was movie theater, pool hall, something else. That urban renewal. My mother's home urban renewal bought her property. My aunt’s home got that.
SB: What did your family do when they bought those properties? Where did they move to?
HWD: At this time my mother had become a widow and, so she moved on to 18th Street. And, my dad had gone and the kids, all the children had gone. But they had bought property there on Northeast Third Street. We moved into a house, a house that—and later they had one built, sort of like those Jim Walters homes. Anyway, they had a house built on the same property. They also had a garden and a few fruit—peach trees and a big tree on that, on that property. Big garden. Anyway, and back to your question. ‘Cause I think I got off, left the question. But what was it? About what I remembered?
SB: What do you remember about urban renewal when that happened?
HWD: Well, you know, but by this time with urban renewal, I was grown. My kids were— and I remember some people being happy and many others being sad. I did not like the trees being gone and then planting trees after you do all of that, I didn't like that at all. So, Eastern—at that time it was Eastern; it's now Martin Luther King—and there were businesses along there, Black-owned businesses and, so they left too. So, there was a lot of displacement of things. I do remember this, this incident: my friend that I was telling you about that, that I met the first day of enrollment. Her family bought a house later on Eighth Street. And at that time there were very few Black families that far over. And so she—that family had to move out of that house because—and she was, the mother was pregnant with their last chi—sibling. Oh my. I remember 13th and Lottie, and that's where we would go to buy our school books every year. My dad walking, taking me, walking me up there and you go to buy school books. So, my memories are just sort of kaleidoscope type.
SB: Well, after school, you said you got married and you had children?
HWD: Yes.
SB: How many children do you have?
HWD: Two.
SB: And where did they go to school?
HWD: They went to school, a neighborhood school. At that time we were living in northeast Oklahoma City, of course, but we had crossed 23rd Street. We was north of 23rd. And, so there was a neighborhood school there: Edison, Thomas Edison Elementary. So they both went there through elementary school. And after that, Northeast High School. There was a good community, Creston Hills was the name of the area. North Creston Hills. Okay. Let's see, where to begin. I'm going to begin with, my husband was a scout leader, a scout leader. He worked with a man that was—not work with, but they were both the scout leaders. So they did some things together. He was going to move that family. They, and so we decided to—he wanted to sell the house to us and we decided to buy it. At that time there were little signs, little signs in the yards that not that they weren't going to sell their property, I don't think, to Black people, but he did. And so there were, oh my, let’s see there were—just about all over, little white signs in the yards, “We will not sell.” Of course, they ended up selling, but at one time it was a fully integrated— except for teachers—fully integrated school, at the elementary school it was. We also started attending a church that had been recently integrated to the first Black and white congregation in Oklahoma City.
SB: What church was that?
HWD: Trinity Presbyterian Church. It was named Trinity after the merger. Before it was Creston Hills Presbyterian Church, and they merged with a Black church that was near the Y—remember the Y I was telling you about?—well it was in that area. And they were all Black. So, they merged after, and that was a big deal, big deal.
SB: And what was that like when you went to church there? Did everybody get along? Everybody was—
HWD: Yes. Yeah, because those who did not like it left and the others—yes, it did. It did. I think it was during the sixties or fifties—in the sixties. I met a white lady. We met on the bus from Oklahoma City going to our, to a Presbyterian women's meeting. And from that encounter and meeting, we started meeting. I—you know, I should have prepared for this, this part of it. I shouldn't have brought it up because I'm not going to be able to get it right. The end results was the integration of the schools--Northeast and Harding School. There were dialogue groups from—started with Trinity and other white churches. The friend that I've mentioned about, we got to be great friends. And so she was, she did not like segregation. So, she was very active with her church. It was one of the larger churches, Presbyterian churches in the city. Then other churches were involved.
SB: Do you remember anything about when the schools integrated? Did you, were your children in school yet? When, when the schools integrated, were your children at school yet?
HWD: Yes, they were. It was not a happy time for them, because we—everybody felt forced, they did. The white kids forced to let Black kids in and, and the Black kids being told by their parents to go and do this. So that was an unfair time. It was also—but the parents too were as scared as the others were. So, there were about four families from that area that integrated, started integrating school. A local dentist’s son... Yeah. I'm not able to complete that, but there was a lawsuit with it down at the doctor about integrating Northeast School...High School.
SB: And that's where your children went to high school. And, let's see, what else do I have? Is there anything in, you know, from that time that you remember that's still there? Is there anything in the northeast Oklahoma City, from when you were growing up or when your kids were young, that, that you remember that's still there or has it changed too much?
HWD: It has changed a great deal. That's—of course Douglass school is there, building. There was a swimming pool area on 20—Northeast 23rd and Grand Boulevard. Black Hawks swimming pool area, and Blacks were not allowed to go somewhere. That well, that's no longer there. Then they built—that’s no longer there—a housing development was there from that. Northeast Center, but that was, park for the kids. What else? All I know I'm going to remember. But can't think of anything else right now.
SB: What part of Oklahoma City do you live in now?
HWD: Now I am living—It's still northeast near by on, in the Capitol area. So move there—I lived in Midwest City for a short time and then, moved there. The home we lived in when we went to—after we left the Creston Hills area, we moved in a little community called Mimosa Heights and Mimosa Heights was just a little two or three street area east of Forest Park. And so, we lived there for almost 50 years. I lived there almost 50 years. The kids went to school, graduated, went to college and, while we were there.
SB: Well, what do you like to do now, now that you're living over where you live now and what do you do for fun?
HWD: For fun? I read a little bit. And I really like the books on tape. I like music. I... I live near my children, my grandchildren, my grandchildren, and I—and so very near them, within two or three blocks, of all of them. And so I like seeing them on weekends and so that's good.
SB: Well, that's about all the questions I have. Is there anything else you'd like to like to say?
HWD: This has been--I can't say fun time--but this has been a really interesting time because I'm now having to really think about and feel. So it's an interesting, really interesting.
SB: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I really appreciate it.
HWD: You’re certainly welcome.