Description:
Francie Pendleton talks about her life in Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewer: Well today, this is a first for me, to actually be interviewing one of my peers and one of my classmates from the Douglass High School class of 1966, the mighty Trojans.
Francie Pendleton: Yeah.
Interviewer: And I have with me today, Francis.
Francie: Francie.
Interviewer: Francie Forshee Pendleton, and is it Francie or Francis?
Francie: It’s Francie, but there’s a story behind that.
Interviewer: Let me hear that little story.
Francie: Okay, the story is my five year old cousin named me. He went to Dunbar and his kindergarten teacher’s name was Mary Francis Oliver. As most of the boys, he was in love with his teacher, so when I was born, he talked my mother into naming the baby Francis.
Interviewer: Okay, Francis.
Francie: So they named me Francis, but it’s not spelled like Francis. On my birth certificate, it’s spelled Francie.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: But that’s all I’ve been called. But as it turns out, when I went to kindergarten, Miss Mary Francis Oliver was my teacher, so it was a lot of fun to have been named after the teacher.
Interviewer: That’s wonderful.
Francie: And she just passed the first part of this year.
Interviewer: Mary Francis Oliver, and she was your kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Oliver?
Francis: Yes, she was at Dunbar. Then, she went to Truman when I went over to Truman and second grade she was there.
Interviewer: Now you said going over to Truman, I’m glad you said that because I tried, as hard as I could, to remember you further on up in elementary school.
Francie: You couldn’t.
Interviewer: And I could not remember you further up in elementary school and that’s exactly why.
Francie: Went to Truman in the second grade and it was Truman second, third, and fourth, and in the fifth and sixth, we integrated and I went to Culberson.
Interviewer: Okay, so Culberson was an integrated school.
Francie: Yes, I think they integrated when I was probably in the fourth grade, no maybe it was the fifth grade because that’s when I went over there.
Interviewer: Okay, I never knew that because of course, I spent my whole six years including kindergarten at Dunbar. You know, we were always all black.
Francie: Yep.
Interviewer: And so I never knew that there was actually an integrated elementary school that early in time.
Francie: That was an adventure, it was an adventure. We had moved to 20th and Prospect at that time.
Interviewer: You moved to 20th and Prospect from where?
Francie: Northeast 10th and Bath.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: And before 10th and Bath, we were at 506 North Nebraska.
Interviewer: 506 North Nebraska.
Francie: Still today, I remember that.
Interviewer: Okay, and then there were a couple of moves on up to 10th and Bath.
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: And then Culberson.
Francie: Yes, then to 2009 North Prospect. Our house was where Riley Pitts Park is located now.
Interviewer: I know where that is.
Francie: The big tree there was in the middle of our backyard.
Interviewer: Well, it was many, many years before I was that far up, far over in the city because my mother, we stayed in the fairgrounds until I was 17. My mother moved to Northeast 37th and Prospect, so that’s where she is today, but we were down on 320 North Jordan until I was 17. From about the age 7 to 17, we stayed there.
Francie: It was interesting when we moved to Prospect. We did go to Culberson there, where I was really surprised that there were other African-Americans in the area. It was kind of a scary time because you really didn’t know what to expect outside of the boundaries.
Interviewer: Yes.
Francie: But I think there were probably six, maybe eight other black kids in our class. I do remember Patty Moore, why do I just remember Patty Moore? But my dad had started to work for Oklahoma Natural Gas and my parents were able to buy our own house so that’s when we moved.
Interviewer: Well, marvelous. I’ve heard you talk about when you all were growing up in the fairgrounds and who were some of your neighbors that you could remember?
Francie: Norris Williams that lived directly across the street.
Interviewer: He’s one of our classmates.
Francie: Regina Mack was one of our classmates, lived next door, Tiqueta Pickett, Marva McCoughman, and Consuela Plane. We all lived back in the same block now that I think about it.
Interviewer: Okay, so I’m listening to you called the names of those kids.
Francie: Well, they were one of our classmates.
Interviewer: Norris I remember absolutely because we were in elementary school all the way through from kindergarten on forever. Consuela, I remember even though she did come in what would’ve been junior high school. Now, she was about 12 so she may have been in perhaps the sixth grade at Dunbar, but before then, I think they lived in Mexico or somewhere. I’m not sure.
Francie: I don’t remember from the block. Maybe she just came to visit or something.
Interviewer: Well, her grandmother lived there, Esther, Mama Esther I just remembered. Mama Esther, she used to come visit Mama Esther.
Francie: That’s what it was, I remember Consuela.
Interviewer: But I was going to say that the other kids that lived in that area, I’m recalling the names but not really getting any images.
Francie: Faces.
Interviewer: And it’s probably because when we lived in that area, I think when we moved out of there, I was maybe four years old. I was really, very young when we moved from that section over to Northeast 4th Street, 4th and Rhode Island.
Francie: Yeah, Regina and Marva were both our classmates also.
Interviewer: Okay, Marva?
Francie: Marva McCoughman and Regina Mack.
Interviewer: Okay, now when we get done with this interview-
Francie: I’ll have to get you a yearbook.
Interviewer: Yeah, I’m going to have to go back to the book and try to recall them. Okay, now how long did you stay in the fairgrounds area?
Francie: Until I was seven.
Interviewer: Seven years old, and what were your parents’ occupations?
Francie: My mom was a domestic, my grandmother had the first corner laundry on the eastside.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: It was off 4th Street.
Interviewer: Now was it on 4th Street, close to where you lived?
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay, so that was that laundromat?
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: That was located closer to-
Francie: Eastern.
Interviewer: Martin Luther King, closer to Eastern at that time.
Francie: We were closer to the funeral home, I can’t remember what funeral home it was.
Interviewer: I’ll try to look that up, I’ll try to check that out.
Francie: And my dad helped out. I remember we had this station wagon with the wood on the side that they would call Woody, Buddy refreshed my memory on that, and my mom was a domestic. She worked there and helped. Well, she helped there until she worked as a domestic.
Interviewer: But you said this was your grandmother’s.
Francie: My mother’s mother.
Interviewer: And what was her name?
Francie: Her name was Magnolia Johnson Lewis and everybody called her Mother Lewis.
Interviewer: But did she grow up in Oklahoma City?
Francie: She was originally from Coyle. My mother was born in Coyle so I really don’t know. My grandmother was born in El Reno. I remember now because I just did a thing on her for-
Interviewer: Uncrowned.
Francie: Uncrowned Queen and I remember looking at her birth certificate and it meant Indian territory, which when I got to looking it up, it was El Reno at the time. She was an interesting kind of woman because she worked in Douglas aircraft, she had a bicycle, she sold ice cream up and down the street, she was a butcher. She worked at the butcher shop, she did any and everything.
Interviewer: Everything, so how did she come to won or operate the laundromat?
Francie: I have no idea.
Interviewer: When did your grandmother pass away?
Francie: She passed away in ‘85.
Interviewer: 1985, I thought that it was more recent than that.
Francie: No, it was when we lived over there and when we moved. She stayed there a bit longer, probably all of the houses on the eastside were owned by a man named Amos T. Bouse.
Interviewer: What was his last name?
Francie: Amos T. Bouse, I guess. I am, I do know that he helped, he may have been the backer or whatever.
Interviewer: He may have set her up.
Francie: Set her up, yes.
Interviewer: And she operated?
Francie: It was a lot of fun in that laundromat.
Interviewer: Well, what was the name of that laundromat, can you remember the name?
Francie: No, I don’t. I don’t think it had a name, probably a Washateria back in those days.
Interviewer: Northeast Third. Okay, I’m going to see if I can find the name of that laundromat and this was in 1955.
Francie: Probably is still there because I think my grandmother left here in either ‘55 or ‘56. She moved to California by this time. She started preaching.
Interviewer: She was in ministry?
Francie: Yes, she was, she was an ordained minister, but there was something to the point that at that particular time, Oklahoma did not have ordained females or women. She could only be a missionary. Well, Mama Maggie, as we called her, had bigger dreams. She went to California and became an ordained minister. She traveled, she traveled everywhere. She loved to travel. She traveled to Hawaii, she went to Japan.
Interviewer: She was quite an enterprising woman.
Francie: She really was, for her day.
Interviewer: And especially for her day and time and especially for a woman of color. That's quite remarkable, actually.
Francie: And one of the things, my grandmother, she really was very fascinating but one of the things that sticks out well, a lot of things to do I can say that, but my grandmother had three daughters. She was seven months pregnant with her fourth daughter when she just walked out of an abusive relationship. Took her kids and left, and that was at a time when women just didn’t leave.
Interviewer: No, they stayed, they sure did.
Francie: She was stocky, she was a big woman, big in stature.
Interviewer: Do you have any pictures of her?
Francie: Yes, I do.
Interviewer: I would like for you to let me have a picture so I can scan it into my computer and have in on hand for a reference, for future reference. You said you didn’t remember the name of the laundromat?
Francie: No.
Interviewer: But tell me what were some of the other businesses that you can remember during that time because most of the people that I’ve been talking to earlier have been in their 70s, 80s, and 90s so some of the things that they remember later on during your and my time span were places that are different. I do know the Brown Bomb is still there somewhere.
Francie: Honest John’s was right across the street.
Interviewer: Oh, Honest John’s is still there? Honest John’s was white owned and operated.
Francie: Yes, but he was right across the street.
Interviewer: And he stayed there.
Francie: He stayed there forever. Okay, Davis, but that was on the way, what was the name of that little place where you got snowcones and you bought stuff for your hair, right just past Washington Park?
Interviewer: Maybe Juanita’s?
Francie: Okay, I just remembered Honest John’s okay, Davis, and right on the other side of 4th street right across 4th and Nebraska were those apartments and I can’t remember those but my aunt-
Interviewer: Buyers.
Francie: My aunt stayed there and that was about it. I couldn’t remember any of the joints. I do remember that if you got all the way to the corner, if you could manage to escape the neighborhood and get to the corner of 5th and Nebraska, there was a club on the corner.
Interviewer: Of 5th and Nebraska?
Francie: And there was a shoeshine parlor. I don’t remember the names.
Interviewer: Well, the thing is, that we were, when you weren’t coming up, things are about to change in that area, in that neighborhood. Things were a-changing because by that time, when you were talking about your remembering different things, the fair, the Oklahoma state fair, was already gone.
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: It would have been there, do you remember going to the Oklahoma state fair?
Francie: I do. I do, in fact my mother, she used to always like to tell people about the time when, she was a fast little sassy thing. She was 18 when I was born. She had to drop out of school and she got married and had me and she decided her friends wanted to go to the fair. One day, I was about three, she said she kept telling me, “When we get in there, don’t call me mom.” Because she wanted to go on a student rate. I said okay, I was fine until we got all the way up to the ticket gate and I said, “Mama, can I go too?” She said, all she could do was look at me.
Interviewer: Well, you ruined that one.
Francie: But that is really the only time I do remember going. I don’t remember going except that one time.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: And that’s maybe because she told that story so much.
Interviewer: And I just, implants, do you ever remember the neighborhood? It gives me like a tent meeting or a neighborhood kind of-
Francie: Revival?
Interviewer: Revival kind of theme that used to take place somewhere around Nebraska 6th or 7th Street in Nebraska or somewhere in there?
Francie: That might have been more Maggie.
Interviewer: Your grandmother.
Francie: Yes, I do, I remember plenty of those.
Interviewer: Yeah, we have them all the time. My mother won several things, they used to sell this water taffy, those boxes of water taffy.
Francie: Oh yes, those saltwater taffy?
Interviewer: Saltwater taffy and she got the right box and she would have a little slip of paper in there that had a prize on it. You can claim your prize and she won prizes often.
Interviewer: So tell me some of your memories when you were seven years old, when you guys-
Francie: Moved?
Interviewer: When you moved out of that area, and then you moved out from that area to 10th.
Francie: 10th.
Interviewer: And Bath.
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay, I see, 10th and Bath clearly.
Francie: We didn’t stay there very long. We had to have stayed there quite a while because I was nine I believe when we moved to Prospect because my mom just had my sister and I was six years older than she is. I do remember that we were on Nebraska. We had this full blood, black cocker spaniel dog and we had a duck. We were the only kids in the neighborhood and we had a dog. The duck rode the dog’s back.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: My cousin and I, the one who named me, we still argue about whose duck that was.
Interviewer: Who it belonged to.
Francie: Yes, his name was Puddle Duck and he said we were the only kids in the ghetto that had a duck that wrote the dog’s back and it disappeared one day.
Interviewer: Somebody had some other duck.
Francie: Yes, we went to our uncle’s and he had duck. We just didn’t even, we knew it was Puddle Duck.
Interviewer: Okay, so now let’s go back. I didn’t ask you when was your birthday?
Francie: 8/14/48. August 13, I was born on Friday the 13th and I like that. That’s kind of novel.
Interviewer: It made you special.
Francie: Well, mama said it was a good day. It was the hottest August on record, but you know, probably wasn’t. When you’re pregnant it’s always... Yes. I was born on Friday the 13th. I was a small, a 5 pound baby. 5 pounds, 2 ounces I believe. So I was very sickly and my grandmother said, “Your mama Constance, your mother bathed you all the time. It took two or three times a day.” I was changed clothes like I was a little doll. Daddy said they used handkerchiefs to put on because I was so small. They didn’t even have diapers and I got sick when I was three months old, went to the hospital in and out until I was seven months old. Mama insisted that they didn’t really have another baby until my brother was born.
Interviewer: Because you were in the house for so long.
Francie: By the time I finally came home, stayed out, I was walking, talking.
Interviewer: Oh my goodness.
Francie: The first word I said when we got home, we were playing and there was an airplane overhead. I said airplane. I have been all over airplanes ever since. I would go on trips and the first day, I would say, “I want to see the Air Force Base. I want to see the planes.”
Interviewer: I’ve heard you speak of your dad often because he is very much involved in your life, especially at this time where the tables kind of turned. The children became the watchers over the parents, but he was occupationally pretty skilled or kind of well to do in the work area. What do you think? Well, you didn’t think so at the time but-
Francie: No, I really didn’t.
Interviewer: What were his professions?
Francie: My dad was blessed, he was really, really blessed because he only had a sixth grade education. He came up here from Foley. I don’t know if he worked anywhere other than the laundromat, but I’m sure he did. He was a workaholic. A couple of days after my brother was born, he went to work for Oklahoma Natural Gas.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: He was one of the first four African Americans to have worked there. His uncle was the first one and he got my dad and my dad’s two cousins.
Interviewer: And what’s your dad’s name?
Francie: Lawrence Forshee.
Interviewer: Lawrence Forshee, and what was his position at O+G?
Francie: Well of course, they all started out as yardmen and janitors and then he worked his way up. By the time he retired in ‘86, I believe it was at a time he was immediate repair man. That’s another thing that’s really unique about my father, he’s probably the only other person I’ve known who has been retired for over 20 years, but still relatively has his health.
Interviewer: He’s been retired 20 long years.
Francie: Over 20 years.
Interviewer: And how old is your dad?
Francie: My dad just had his 78th birthday.
Interviewer: Oh he retired young.
Francie: He did. Well, he called me one day and he said, “They’re offering me a retirement package and I really don’t want to but what do you think?” I said, “Well Pop, they are offering it to you for a reason so take it because it will figure you out a way to get out of anything.” So he did and at the time, he was big and bowled. My parents-
Interviewer: He bowled?
Francie: My parents were into bowling.
Interviewer: Bowling, okay.
Francie: They bowled semi-professionally, a little bit of chains there, so that was his little big thing. He was always in bowling.
Francie: They won two leagues and of course, we had to be in a league, so we bowled every Saturday morning. Others went home watching cartoons but we had to be in the bowling leagues.
Interviewer: Where did you bowl?
Francie: Brian Center.
Interviewer: Tell me your mom’s full name, I didn’t ask you that.
Francie: Ruthy Mae Murphy Forshee.
Interviewer: Ruthy Mae.
Francie: She was unique in her own way too. She dropped out of high school, as I said in the 10th grade when her mother was sick so she could work and help my grandmother. SHe had her children. When my sister was a senior in high school, she’s the baby, mama went back to school.
Interviewer: She went back to high school?
Francie: No, actually she went to Mr. Weisener’s School. Mr. Weisener’s was on Fourth Street business school.
Interviewer: Weisener’s, where on fourth street. Can you remember?
Francie: No, but I can tell exactly the street in front of Foster Center. The street that's still there. Weisener’s Business School, he was in one of those sturdy houses.
Interviewer: Probably somewhere close to Broadway Center, that story that Buddy did on Broadway Center was across the street from-
Francie: Foster.
Interviewer: From the Y.
Francie: Weisener’s Business School.
Interviewer: Oh, I haven’t heard of that one.
Francie: It’s where my mother got her certificate. He taught typing, filing, bookkeeping, and short hand. My mother learned short hand and she never forgave me for never leaning short hand and I never forgave me for never learning short hand, especially now as an administrative assistant to the director. I have to do a lot and I think, “Oh, Mama was so right.” But she went back and learned her office skills. Then, she went to OYC, got her high school diploma. Then, she went on to University of Central Oklahoma and was working on her degree in library science.
Interviewer: Isn’t that wonderful? Yes, I remember seeing that information in her obituary, that’s remarkable. Now your mom, is she from Oklahoma City?
Francie: She was from Coyle.
Interviewer: She was from Coyle, Oklahoma. When did she come to Oklahoma City, do you know?
Francie: No, I don’t think she ever said that. I know, I just found out this when she started getting sick and she would kind of like flashback, I went over one day and she mentioned something about her Aunt Dar and Uncle Frank. Then, she proceeded to tell us about living in El Reno. Well, this was probably seven years ago, I never knew my mother lived in El Reno. Apparently, my grandmother, after she had her daughters, she took the children to El Reno to live with her aunt and uncle. She came to Oklahoma City to work so my mom spent a little bit of time in El Reno.
Interviewer: Okay, and going to school.
Francie: I’m assuming it was probably until they reached junior high, high school. Then, she came to Oklahoma City.
Interviewer: And so what was your mom’s final occupation with her continually going to school and doing things like that. What was her occupation?
Francie: She was third floor supervisor of the Central State University library. Each floor had thier own-
Interviewer: Oh, so she was in the library system too.
Francie: She was the third floor supervisor.
Interviewer: And did her work there in any way influence you?
Francie: No, actually I was at the library before she started.
Interviewer: At that one?
Francie: She worked right on the corner of 36th and Springlake Drive when it was IGA Grocery Store. She worked there as a bookkeeper.
Interviewer: Okay, 36th and Springlake Drive.
Francie: And that’s when she decided to go on and increase her classes and just go on. She was actually, Buddy Johnson actually knew her. I don’t know if he worked for her at Central State as one of the pages but he knew Mama well.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: He knew that she liked to feed people, so that was Mama.
Interviewer: Well, I’m just so-
Francie: And she did go to Douglas.
Interviewer: So when she dropped high school to take care of your grandmother, it was?
Francie: At Douglas High.
Interviewer: At Douglas, 10th grade at Douglas okay. I’m still amazed when I talk to people in this day and time, but back then, it seemed that they were so motivated. They had this drive and this will to succeed no matter what. Like I said, your father only went as far as-
Francie: Sixth grade.
Interviewer: Sixth grade in formal education and then your mother had been a high school dropout. Today, that’s almost a killer and yet they excelled and exceeded in the positions, in areas, that they worked in because they have that, you know, “nothing can stop me.”
Francie: And Mama always had the attitude of, “I don’t care what you do after high school, but you will graduate from high school.”
Interviewer: Yeah, that was the ultimate in my family circle too.
Francie: That was it. My brother went on to college and got a degree.
Interviewer: That’s Derek?
Francie: Yes, and when he started, he’s now a chef.
Interviewer: His degree though?
Francie: Sociology and psychology. He went to Texas Southern and when he decided that he wanted to become a chef, my daddy just looked at him and he said, “Your Mama could have taught you to cook for free.”
Interviewer: “Your Mama could’ve taught you that.”
Francie: For free, I’m still paying out student loans.
Interviewer: I heard that, and so how many brothers and sisters did you have in all?
Francie: There are three of us. I’m the oldest, we are each three years apart.
Interviewer: Oh, just three kids okay. You, your sister, and Derek.
Francie: Yep, she is the baby and she never lets you forget you. Her name is Darcus.
Interviewer: Now tell me, this I know, that you and I came up around the same time and going to our junior high, you went to Moon Junior High?
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: Moon Junior High and then on over to Douglas Senior High School, they used to use that to differentiate. It was a senior high school, tell me about some of the things that influenced you as a student at Douglas.
Francie: That’s a hard question.
Interviewer: Why is it difficult?
Francie: I think it was just Douglas because, you know, we grew up at a time Douglas was, that’s where you wanted to go. That’s where you wanted to excel, we had more of an ownership with Douglas and with ourselves, so we wanted to do better, we wanted to get in there and make a difference.
Interviewer: Wanted to be among the top, wanted to have the top scores, the cream of the crop.
Francie: Yeah.
Interviewer: There were other classes that had come before us that were excellent examples if we’re looking for a role model.
Francie: Classes of ‘56, ‘57.
Interviewer: Yes, do you now all of those? ‘56 and ‘57 all the way up to and including ‘65, but Douglas was spitting out-
Francie: Top notch people.
Interviewer: Some top notch professional people of color. I can’t say that there was ever a speaking role but it was something you always strived for and whether it was athletics or academia.
Francie: It was just something that was there. That’s what you wanted to do.
Interviewer: You wanted your class to be better than the one before that.
Francie: And have something to brag about.
Interviewer: Yes, something and someone, those for the classes of ‘63 and ‘64 has been art. That one, they have bragging rights on.
Francie: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: So excellent people actually come out of Douglas Senior High School, the pride of the Eastside. It absolutely was, that I know, that you probably, I was one of the kids that wanted to one day be marching down the street in that parade, in the neighborhood parade, where we have the homecoming parade.
Francie: My aunt was in the band, she was a major rat.
Interviewer: And what was her name?
Francie: Douglas Band, her name was Naomi, that was actually Magnolia Naomi and we called her Aunt Naomi.
Interviewer: And what was her last name, maiden name?
Francie: Murphy, she was in the class of ‘56, ‘57 something like that.
Interviewer: She was with Alina Arnold, Russell Bear.
Francie: One of the alumni’s brought the yearbook to the alumni meeting and I found her picture in it and opened that book and I looked at it and I thought, “My picture-”
Interviewer: She looked like you?
Francie: I’ve always looked like her, identical, but this picture was looking like my seventh grade picture. I showed it to my dad, I didn’t tell him who it was. I said, “Daddy, look who it was.” And he said, “Oh, that’s a picture of you.”
Interviewer: That much, that much alike. Well, I want you to think about, I know you said that the goal as a student at Douglas High School was to strive for excellence. Did you realize that that’s what it was at the time?
Francie: No, I don’t think so. I think as a kid, you don’t really think about things like that. Mine was basically fear, fear of not doing well and having to go home. You know, it was a thin line. It’s like we had to go home and face Ruthy Mae, so you always did the best that you could. That's one of the things that I preach with my grandkids now, is that you always do the best that you can, even if you fail. You get in there and try.
Interviewer: Yeah, give it your best shot and all your grandkids, did they go to high school?
Francie: Two of them went to Douglas last year.
Interviewer: Okay.
Francie: So that was the only, to my children, unfortunately moved right down the street across Northeast High School, so my kids went to Northeast. I wanted them to go to Douglas so bad, especially my sons, since their father went to Douglas. He was a big athlete. I wanted the boys to follow suit.
Interviewer: Their father being?
Francie: James Guidon, so it didn’t happen but.
Interviewer: Okay, now who are some of the teachers at Douglas that impressed you or made an impression on your mind?
Francie: One of my favorite teachers was Mr. Baker, Frank Baker. He was the electronics teacher.
Interviewer: Electronics teacher?
Francie: I think that’s what it was, anyways, I was crazy about Mr. Butler, Charles Butler, Frank Baker, Mr. Waterford.
Interviewer: Now, what did Baker teach as far as you can remember?
Francie: I don’t remember what Baker took, maybe it was science. I can’t remember.
Interviewer: Okay, Butler?
Francie: Math.
Interviewer: Okay, I have no memory of a Butler then.
Francie: Charles Butler.
Interviewer: And Mr. Waterford, what did he teach?
Francie: English and of, Mr. Hicks, music.
Interviewer: Chorus.
Francie: Chorus.
Interviewer: I don’t remember those teachers other than Hicks. I don’t remember any of them.
Francie: Really?
Interviewer: I think I kind of remember Waterford, but the other names are not familiar to me, but we had a lot of different-
Francie: Teachers, yes.
Interviewer: A lot of different classes in different categories.
Francie: Yeah, Mr. Waterford and that was it.
Interviewer: Now, why did they impress you?
Francie: I kind of think it was just their attitude with the students because they had a rapport with the students, so that was important to me. I remember telling one of the guys in the class of ‘65, we were
just at school last Saturday, we were working on the history museum for Douglas, so we were trying to organize it and we were looking at the trophy cases and all this. I remember looking at Jake Diggs and Pia’s picture.
Interviewer: And who’s Pia? Francie: Moses F. Miller, and I was telling them that the teacher that scared me the most was Jake Arthur Diggs. That man just scared the Jesus out of me. If he walked in the room, you know you just froze. So in the other teachers, demeanor was what it was for me.
Interviewer: Their presence commanded respect.
Francie: Yeah, they didn’t have to intimidate you.
Interviewer: Their presence was sufficient.
Francie: And I’m working on, I had compiled a story of Douglas and Anita Arnold had compiled a story, so we are going to put our two stories together and end up together. It’s going to be a little bit longer and at the end of my story of the old Douglas, I am going to start the history of the new Douglas.
Interviewer: Yes, and maintain a history. It’s remarkable that when you go to the school board or even to the school itself, you cannot find history of schools. I was just trying to do research on Dunbar.
Francie: And you can’t find any.
Interviewer: There’s nothing, just a short, approximately one page article that someone in the research room at the Oklahoma Board of Education has prepared and sent me, absolutely no pictures.
Francie: That’s where library’s come in.
Interviewer: I just can’t imagine and the school is still standing.
Francie: And still operating.
Interviewer: I can’t imagine that there’s not something somewhere, so that’s going to be something a little to work on, but you seem to be still very involved in Douglas High School in this day and time.
Francie: My kids tell me I spend more time with Douglas now probably than when I went there.
Interviewer: And when did you graduate?
Francie: 1966.
Interviewer: 1966, and so you are still very actively involved with?
Francie: I’m very actively involved with the Booster Club, the Alumni Association, and with the class of ‘66.
Interviewer: Okay, the Class Committee.
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: Okay, so you said you were working last Saturday or something. You’re working on the history?
Francie: Yes, we were. There is a museum right next to the auditorium at Douglas and Arnold, Prince, and I had organized that. There’s a lot of things that they had to retrieve, a lot of items before old Douglas was torn down.
Interviewer: Where did they get them?
Francie: From the school, received from the school. They just literally went and were stored somewhere in the old Douglas.
Interviewer: Right, okay.
Francie: And they went in there and they just got boxes and they put them in the garage.
Interviewer: That’s great.
Francie: When we were in that museum, we were actually in there on Wednesday and Thursday getting ready for a presentation on Saturday. There were record books in there from 1914.
Interviewer: From 1914?
Francie: I’ve got pictures from the 1914 graduating class. I think there was a class of 1930 for their articles, all kinds of record books, tapes basically. From reel to reel ups of somebody who put it on CDs and just boxes and boxes of material. I have the pictures. I’m going to take them to the library to laminate them so we can put that.
Interviewer: That is just wonderful, did you forget about the class of 1966? We have not used, boxed the huge orange book.
Francie: Is it? You know, I didn’t.
Interviewer: Is there anything else about library that-
Francie: Well, and that everything was just done quickly. We are going to have to order some shelves. I told them about the book, Orville has done a beautiful job restoring all the old trophies.
Interviewer: So when did Orville Prince graduate?
Francie: ‘64.
Interviewer: It was either ‘64 or probably ‘65 so there was a presentation at Douglas.
Francie: Well, this was the help.
Interviewer: That you were talking about, I didn’t know that was on Saturday in conjunction with the Capital Bowl.
Francie: If that was something else that was done at the stadium, this was not at the school and it was.
Interviewer: I did not know that.
Francie: And help forum, it was beautiful. My brother catered, he did a great job, beautiful and healthy meal. So we were there Saturday, it was an all day affair and it was nice.
Interviewer: And it was held in where?
Francie: The auditorium, in the cafetorium, auditorium. Dominique Wilkins, basketball player, was there.
Interviewer: I didn’t know that was the same weekend. I didn’t know that. Well, I do want to say, Francie, I appreciate you taking the time and I appreciate you taking the time out of your very busy schedule to sit down and chat with you about coming up in the fairgrounds area. I’m still amazed of the names of the families that you remember. I just kind of remember if I went to school, I would remember. You just remembering certain things that I wouldn’t and especially since you moved out of the area so early, that’s kind of the thing that you to remember. When we moved out of the area and were brought back together in junior high school. Virginia Mack was the play cousin, you know, how you have this play cousin and her mother and my mother were all best friends. We grew up with our hairdresser Aunt Marva, played together a lot. We didn’t play much with Norris because Norris was in his own little world.
Interviewer: He was a boy.
Francie: Yes, and went and told the boys.
Interviewer: My very first fight, I guess you can call it, that I had at school was with Norris.
Francie: Mine was with Aunt Marva and Coach Kelly lived behind us on Eastern. I think he lived in Eastern.
Interviewer: No, he was across the street.
Francie: Across the street on Crescent.
Interviewer: No, he was on Wisconsin, somewhere close to the apartments, which was what I understand, I’ve been talking with someone pretty soon that remembers that those apartments were hospitals. They called them Buyer’s Apartments or something but those apartments, they’re south of Fourth Street down on Wisconsin, I think. It was a large apartment complex, actually, but it had been formally a hospital. One of my interviewees remembers when it was a hospital.
Francie: I have got an interesting website that I will send you. It was on Edward’s Edition, the history of Edward’s Edition. Mr. Edwards, I’m just getting so bogged down with history, I’m started to love it. When you go to school, you don’t like it but then you get out of that history on Edward’s Hospital, so I will send you that.
Interviewer: Now that area that’s going across, but I was going to say, that area is rich in history. It has a rich history and talk about accomplishments and endeavors by people of color in a time where they were supposed to have been so disadvantaged.
Francie: He had to fight it because they were just so sure that they couldn’t make it and he applied for that government grant and got it all checked out. That’s an interesting story and even his organization and building a hospital because he couldn’t get his wife any kind of help there. By the time they came back, he took her out of state and then he came out. That was one of the things.
Interviewer: Isn’t that something? I think I would build me a hospital then and he did.
Francie: There’s a lot of rich history in Oklahoma City and to me, one of the greatest disservices that the city did to itself was urban renewal. I think it was just for urban renewal to come in and wipe everything out.
Interviewer: Like it didn’t exist because people don’t remember it because people don’t see it any longer. They see the signs, they don’t even have familiar streets. People that I’ve interviewed talked about thePeople that I’ve interviewed talked about they can’t even remember, can’t even find a street that used to be there. There’s nothing and it’s devastating to those of us who know that we were there.
Francie: That we saw it.
Interviewer: That we were there and it’s hard to put in words, but I’m going to try to find the words to create the visual picture for someone reading about what used to be there, for them to see.
Francie: I have a good question, I think it was on Nathan Stonewall that was just a little trailer. They used to give out hotdogs, hamburgers and a lunch wagon kind of.
Interviewer: Now Eighth and Stonewall because had Eighth and Lottie, where CD Morgan’s house is, then you go down one block, then something else. I can’t remember the name of that street, but it’s one block down. I think it’s Kate or Furshield or something like that. No, that’s wrong. It’s Everest or something, but anyways, it’s one block down and then on the corner of Eighth and Stonewall. It’s where the laundromat is, the little place that you’re talking about was not on there.
Francie: Oh, okay. I don’t remember the name of it.
Interviewer: I don’t, but the little house story was the first one with the trailer. Then it was not really a shotgun house, but it was still structured, structure’s still there.
Francie: Oh okay. It was just before Edward’s and Fifth, do you remember the Eye Stop?
Interviewer: I don’t remember that, Eye Stop. Well, I think I have vague memories of Eye Stop.
Francie: Eye Stop, Safeway, TGY.
Interviewer: Now you’re talking about that Eye Stop that was west of Lottie. I was thinking, there was an Eye Shop on 7th Street back on the fairgrounds off of Bath. It was called Frenchies, is what you’re talking about, the other one. Would’ve seen that one when we were about maybe 9 or 10, somewhere between 7 and 10.
Francie: And it’s interesting because once you start talking about, you got the picture in your mind.
Interviewer: And I can see Edmonson’s Fishmarket just as clear as if it was still sitting up on that, up like that.
Francie: Little awning type porch.
Interviewer: As if it was open, I mean the glass. Two whole sizes but it was a lot of glass.
Francie: It was some good hamburgers.
Interviewer: Yeah, I remember. I can see that. I remember that that’s why one of the things that I wanted to be sure was to keep my focus on the fairgrounds area because the enterprise that I am talking about in the fairgrounds area really abounded throughout what we call the Northeast Community on the colored side of town. Really that enterprise abounded all throughout the area when we had the opportunity to go beyond a certain street, when we weren’t redlined.
Francie: Yes.
Interviewer: So, kind of wrapping the session up, I do want to talk about what you do today, Mrs. Francie Forshee Pendleton, I’m very excited about this position you hold.
Francie: Okay, I’m administrative assistant to the director of the Metropolitan Library System, Don Maurice.
Interviewer: How long have you been with the library system?
Francie: October 1, well I say October 1, they say October 9, but it’s been about 35 years.
Interviewer: 35 years.
Francie: And a fifth year recognition in two weeks in a banquet.
Interviewer: Wonderful, that’s great. Now, when you started at the Metropolitan, was it Metropolitan or Downtown Library?
Francie: No actually, it was City County Library at the time.
Interviewer: What made you go into that field. Was it interesting or is it just the place where you got a job?
Francie: A place where I got a job. I had a year old child and I wanted to do something, go to work so I actually wanted a telephone, that’s what it was. I wanted a telephone and we really couldn’t afford it and I told James that I would get a job because all I wanted was a telephone. Now I don’t really like to talk about a telephone, but it was about the telephone, so I found this job, it was a part-time job, four hours. I thought that was good because it still gave me time to be a wife and a mother in the afternoon. I went to work and that’s the first thing I did.
Interviewer: That’s how it all started, how to have a telephone.
Francie: That’s it.
Interviewer: And still 35 years later.
Francie: Yes, I was there for a couple of months and then they offered me to work in one area of the library for from 8 to 12 and in another area from 1 to 5, so I sat there and did that for a year. Then, I left and went to work for Arthur Anderson and Company. Arthur Anderson was one of the top 10 speaking firms in the nation, so I went to work for them. I was the only black in the company of 96 people. It was a great place to work and I stayed there.
Interviewer: This would’ve been around what time frame/
Francie: 70 through 72 and then had two babies and my mother thought, “Okay I think you should stay home and raise these kids.” It didn’t work out. I just go, “I didn’t like them as much as I love them.” And we love them half the time, so I have stayed in contact with the gentleman at the library who, at the time, was public information director. I knew thathe literally went to lunch one day and when he came back to the library, he was not the director. It was just a big coup over the library lunch hour. We stayed friends and I stayed in contact with him so he called me and asked me if I would like to work for maternity leave. I said yes, I stayed and that’s been it. The rest, as they say, is history.
Interviewer: Well, Francie, it’s been really a pleasure to sit down and talk with you. I now understand why I couldn’t remember you in the elementary school.
Francie: I didn’t stay long.
Interviewer: I understand why you’re definitely endeared in my memories from junior high school all the way up. It’s been a real pleasure to sit down and talk with a peer. We were coming up in Oklahoma City at a time that definite change was taking place. I remember, from my memories, of Douglas High School. We had that one something that I can’t remember, the one Caucasian and she was a part-time librarian if I remember correctly at Douglas. The year that we graduate, I don’t remember any other being on staff for any being at the school.
Francie: I do think for the whole four years, almost at one point, there was always one white student at the school. They didn’t stay long.
Interviewer: An actual student.
Francie: Never stayed long, but there was actually one and Douglas has never been integrated, it has always been segregated, it was just where we were, centrally located, in the heart of the hood, the heart of the black community. It was our school.
Interviewer: Well, Francie, again. Thank you for coming out.
Francie: Thank you for wanting me.
Interviewer: I really appreciate it.
Francie: Talking with me, it’s great.