Description:
Ward 7 City Councilwoman Nikki Nice talks about the past, present, and future of northeast Oklahoma City.
Northeast Storytelling Project
Interviewee: Nikki Nice
Interviewer: Dochelle Whitley
Dochelle Whitley: Today is Monday November 4th, 2019. My name is Dochelle Whitley with the Metropolitan Library System, Ralph Ellison branch. I am interviewing Nikki Nice, we are located at the city hall location downtown Oklahoma City and we’re just gonna start off by you stating your name and spelling it for our records.
Nikki Nice: Ok Nikki Nice, N-I-K-K-I, N-I-C-E.
DW: Ok, and can we get your birth name and your date of birth.
NN: Daaang, Alberta Nicole Swanegan Owens, do I need to spell that out too?
DW: *chuckles* No.
NN: My date of birth is July 18th, 1980.
DW: As you know what we are trying to attempt to do is collect oral histories of the community so we can, you know, piece everybody’s story together. So, I’m just gonna ask you a few questions here.
NN: Ok.
DW: First question is: Do you know what brought you and your family to Oklahoma City?
NN: My mom moved to Oklahoma City in 1965 from Watonga Oklahoma. So, she was raised in Watonga and she graduated from Watonga High School and she said she no longer wanted to live the country life so she moved to the city to become a city slicker. So that’s why my mom moved here in ‘65 but my dad, he was raised here– in Oklahoma City.
DW: And when she moved to Oklahoma City, did she move to the Northeast side? What side of Oklahoma City did she move to?
NN: If I’m not mistaken she did move to northeast Oklahoma City because one of my great uncles had a home in northeast Oklahoma City. We were actually just talking about that yesterday, so it was very funny that you said that. I believe his home was on Bath, northeast
Bath and she said that's where she stayed and I believe that's why she was going to business school.
DW: Ok, Bath is near MLK and Northeast 16th?
NN: Yes, it’s around that area.
DW: In Between MLK and Lottie?
NN: Yes
DW: Ok and you were born in Oklahoma City?
NN: I was born in Oklahoma City, and I was raised in the area of – what we all know it now as the area of Capital View– but it’s Northeast 33rd so right behind Leo’s. That neighborhood right behind Leo’s BBQ there’s like a little cul de sac area that kinda circles around. So my home, that I remember growing up was over there but I know my mom also lived on Madison when I was first born and then we moved to Northeast 33rd street.
DW: So what schools do you remember going to?
NN: I went to Millwood from preschool to 8th grade and then I went to Northeast High School to be a part of the biomedical sciences program my freshman year of high school, graduated from Northeast High School.
DW: Let's go back to your mother in Watonga wanting to leave the sticks, or whatever you want to call it–
NN: *laughs* The country, girl she said “I’m outta here”
DW: Do you know much about your ancestors in Watonga, were you told much about them?
NN: Somewhat, I do know her grandparents raised her in Watonga and from what I understand, my great grandfather migrated here, I can’t remember if it was from Arkansas or Mississippi, and I’ve been trying to look through the census records to find his name and I find names here and there but there’s no connection because we’ve been able to track his name, Charles Swanegan to Kentucky but the way Swanegan is written, it changes. Ours is written S-W-A-N-E-G-A-N but there are S-W-A-N-I-G-A-Ns that have migrated out of the Kentucky area so it’s really kinda hard to find his name and the story I understood is, I don’t know if he just left or whatever the case may be, that’s where he came from.
DW: Ok well let’s fast forward back to Oklahoma City and you're growing up. What is your most memorable place in the Northeast side of Oklahoma…?
NN: My most memorable place on the Northeast side of Oklahoma City, I have a couple. One is my church, Greater New Zion Baptist Church because that’s where I’ve been attending since I was 6 months old and I still attend there to this day.
DW: And where’s that located?
NN: It’s off of 30th and Kelley. 2801 North Kelley Avenue is the address. And also the eastside YMCA I grew up there which is now the Urban league location which is located on 36th and MLK. So those are a couple places I know for sure are just fond memories and obviously those schools I went to, Millwood and also Northeast. And the library, Ralph Ellison that is.
DW: Ralph Ellison Library ok. What encounters or specific events or feelings do you have that associate you with the YMCA? What’s your most fond memories of the YMCA?
NN: Oooh, my fond memories of the Y are leaders that we had, the counselors we had, our counselors, Zeke, we had Sheri, there was quite a few of us, and all the Millwood kids, we all went to the Y for the most part. It was a couple kids from other schools but just that interaction of youth and having counselors engaged and there were times because there was not a swimming pool there that we would get on the bus, and we would travel to the foster center to swim a lot of summer. So, we had summer day camp and I was one of the first kids that ever attended the youth center when it became the eastside YMCA youth center and have some long lasting friendships from even being a part of the youth center and still speak to my counselors that I had from back in the day. So those are great connections to have and one of them is an associate pastor in a church in northeast Oklahoma City, still being able to have those connections of what the YMCA brought for us, those are the memories I have of that and just growing up there.
DW: This question kinda threw me when I read it but what do you, you said about your counselors, and you mentioned the swimming pool and going to the day camps, but are there any smells, sounds, sights, emotions that link you back to the YMCA or, I know the church is gonna have fond memories but I’m kinda gonna stay focused with the Y right now.
NN: There was time I remember, I can’t remember where we were going, but we were on our bus and I don’t know if it was a cold day or a warm day either way it seems that the brakes went out in the bus and you know it’s a very steep hill and our bus literally came down the hill, went over the street into the grass and it was almost over that ditch and that’s a drop. So, I remember the chaos of that, and I remember our bus driver. His name was Ivory, and he was a firefighter so he’s retired now so if you saw him, you would not believe he was ever a firefighter, but he went into work mode and action to make sure all of us got off the bus. It was like a moment of chaos but he helped all of us so every time I pass by there that’s what I remember, that time of what we did and just that moment of, I say vulnerability, but also that moment of like a hero aspect where he went into work mode and I definitely remember and every time I see him I smile and I hug him because I know we all could have been gone.
DW: And do you remember how old you were at that point?
NN: I was under 10, I had to have been 7…8 or 9 when that took place and still remember that to this day. I remember the clacking of pool tables because that’s what we used to do, play pool. I remember the pictures, we used to have pictures of all of us at the YMCA and I've been asking some of the YMCA directors now where those pictures are, nobody knows where those pictures are of us as kids.
DW: And if you go into that facility right now is there any memorabilia or anything that will connect you to what it was when you were there? Or have they changed it?
NN: Well, the infrastructure is still the same so yes I can still when I walk in place where the pool tables were, I can place where the offices were, I can place where they had the executive meetings and those types of things and the gym – all of that stuff still looks the same so I can still place and remember those things about the Y.
DW: Do you know why you were one of the first to participate or to be placed into that setting?
NN: If I'm not mistaken, they had just opened. So that’s why we were some of the first kids to ever attend.
DW: Do you have any siblings?
NN: I’m my mom’s only child and I did get youth of the year in 1987 for the Y– it was either 87 or 88 for the YMCA and my mom still has the article clipped out of the Black Chronicle from that time.
DW: What did you do to deserve that honor?
NR: I don’t know, I don’t know
*Both laugh*
NN: But I sure was happy I guess, I don’t know what I did, just being a team player. But I did, I enjoyed that time that we had and my friends. Like I said my friends are still those friends and still remember like when my mom couldn’t come pick me up, she would send her friends. I remember her coming to get me and saying, “come on Nik!” and we’d leave, so those are things I'd remember when I pull up in the parking lot at the Y right now or the Urban League as it is called right now.
DW: And you said she said “Come on Nik” so you’ve been known as Nikki?
NN: Oh I’ve been – my middle name is Nicole so I’ve been known as Nik, Nikki, Nicole all the time so and my government name being Alberta so if by school, if someone call me that from school then they know me in a different realm than someone that calls me Nik, Nikki and now in this role obviously everyone calls me Nikki so I know how to distinguish when people call me certain– or if someone says Ms. Nice I know they don’t know me in a personal sense. They know me in a professional sense in this realm. So that’s how I'm able to distinguish who knows me by which name
DW: What do you think, just thinking about the eastside and the Y, what do you think has changed most in the northeast community?
NN: Just the disinvestment in the community has increased tremendously and that’s the unfortunate piece and even with the Y, it went away. It went away and that building was empty for a while before Urban League came and the YMCA in my opinion was a thriving area for community to be a part and then for the decline of that and you have the decline of the area where I grew up. There used to be grocery stores all around there and then those leave and then the community declines because of those disinvestments that you have. So that’s been the part that’s really disturbing to see and especially community has left, and you have a lot of people who were lifelong residents and they pass away and then you have the community or their children or grandchildren who don’t see that same value or richness that their parents or grandparents saw in that same area or neighborhood. Those are the things that kinda, not kinda, but they disappoint you when you look at the community that you grew up in and see the decline of where it is now. Especially with like Northeast and being a part of Northeast High School. Now where Northeast is compared to where it was is devastating to see the decline and how it got to this point because Northeast at one time for many years was THE magnet school of Oklahoma City, and over the years after we graduated, I graduated in ‘98 and in the class of ‘99 is when it started to go 6th through 12th and to me that was the decline of Northeast and the resources started to leave the school and when the resources leave obviously community leaves and then there’s the threat of it closing every single year so therefore there’s more decline and students leave because no one knows what’s gonna happen and then you go to the point where now people feel that another school has to come in to save the day.
DW: The merge
NN: I wouldn't call it a merge, I’d call it a takeover when it should have been a merge, it should have been a merge and when you have people that are telling you what’s best for your own community that’s when I have a problem with that. If you’re not from here and you don’t understand that so you can’t really understand where this community has been in order for where it needs to be.
DW: Where it can go from here.
NN: Exactly, where it can go from here. With the history of Northeast and Classen I don’t think people really understand when I was in high school Classen I guess had just reopened but Classen would come to Northeast to participate in extracurricular activities, athletics and band, so they were part of Northeast it’s not as if there was never a relationship with these schools so that’s why I say a merge could have been much easier and more transitional than what actually happened and took place.
DW: What buildings or businesses, or business do you most wish was still part of the Northeast community.
NN: You name it I mean everything’s gone. I think about obviously the fact that we have grocery stores that were in abundance at one time and now you literally have one on the east side to choose from. I think about those necessities and amenities that have left our community and as we address the food insecurity right now, there was a story that was on the news and I just kinda got a little disinterested in that story because the information was wrong and the reason I was disinterested in that story and had to correct it on twitter is because people want to assume things that they don’t know and the comment was made that there is an abundance of fast food restaurants in northeast Oklahoma City in 73111, there’s 7, and I wouldn’t say that’s an abundance of anything when you look at that compared to even the option of having a grocery store when you have ONE in the 73111 zip code. Just the misconception of what people think you have and what you’re subjected to is an issue for me.
DW: So, in this article they were stating that the fast-food restaurants are taking the place of the grocery store, that’s what the community is supposed to use for source of food?
NN: Yes and no, I think more of the comment was because of the healthy neighborhood overlay that we’re implementing for the 73111 zip code and because that was in our council meeting and that the reporter only picked up on that part of the conversation when one of our council members said “aren’t there fast-food restaurants in that area? So how are you still going to address healthy needs and concerns?” and my response to that question was, “a lot of our fast-food restaurants now offer healthy menus,” so it's not as if you can’t still tell a story about healthy and being healthy. But again, when you don’t have access and you don’t have the opportunity to have access, that’s a problem. And in my opinion shame on the city of Oklahoma City or any city for that matter that does not decide to give access to the community that needs it the most.
DW: What about some of the places that remain the same in the community?
NN: Goodness gracious, we’ll start with the 23rd and MLK location where the smart saver closed. That location if you look at pictures from the late 1960s, early 70s, if you put that corner, that picture, from a color picture right now to the black and white and transpose them, you would see the exact same thing and that is so disturbing. That is disturbing for a community to be subjected to zero growth. Zero opportunities in that one area. Also, when you look at 36th and Kelley, same thing. Just recently we’ve been able to upgrade that area, but that community has been subjected to what they’ve seen for quite some time, you know over twenty years and with that it proves why there hasn’t been any economic development, there hasn’t been any investment in the community, and you have to look at who owns these pieces of property, as to why they aren’t moving. And if you research that you understand that a lot of these people have owned some of these particular corners, some historically for numbers of years and some for not as many years but still the fact remains that there hasn’t been any investment in their own property therefore in my opinion that shows how you care about the community that is patronizing the business that you operate.
DW: Why did you run for city council?
NN: That's a good question because I’m trying to figure that out right now! The main reason I ran for city council was for representation and when you look at historically what the seat is as far as ward seven is concerned, ward seven has historically been an African American held seat from the appointment of Dr. Charles Atkins in 1966 to Dr. A.L. Dowell who was elected in 1967 and so on until you get here this has been the only black seat or African American held seat for city council, for the city of Oklahoma City since our city incorporated in 1890. From that, with our only African American woman of color to serve on city council since 1890 Ms. Willa Johnson in 1993, she is also from ward 7 so this is the seat, unfortunately and fortunately, that you have representation of color. So when it came to those things and being aware of what was going on in the community and the abruptness of the resignation of our predecessor, the previous councilman, I said, “this is something I’m going to do or not do and if I’m gonna do it imma do it” and I decided to do that but I will preface this to say, I had never in my life planned on running for public office. This is not something I saw in my future to ever do so basically when I say I did this to have representation to make sure our community was represented and our voices were heard, that is my being of why I am sitting in this seat. To make sure our voices are heard.
DW: This next question you probably want to just revamp what you just said but, what is your favorite part or your favorite thing about representing your community in the city of politics.
NN: My favorite part of representing the community is just being a voice for those, I mean we’re not voiceless, but just being able to amplify some of those voices that haven’t been heard as much as they need to be. I’ve also learned a lot in this seat of what city government looks like, what government in general looks like, and expectations of what city government does and also being able to communicate with the community of what’s coming, what this looks like, and what happened with the closure of the store I must say that was a devastating blow, devastating to our community, especially the fact that there wasn’t any conversation about it, it just happened. And the community wasn’t aware, and people asked me, “you didn’t know about this?” No, no, I found out the same time everybody else did that the store was closing. But being able to also find a resolution and resolve in some aspects where we’re now announcing a brand-new grocery store, a real full service grocery store is coming to our community to also say we’re now announcing a wellness center location, we’re seeing some growth and economic development, you’re seeing a renaissance that is happening within northeast Oklahoma City. You see people actually coming together to say, “what can we do commonly to ensure our community is going to grow” and also how do we have development without displacement because a lot of people have asked me, and it is a concern, gentrification is a concern for our communities, we get it, it’s here, but how can we self-gentrify our communities so that our community has buy-in in what’s taking place in the economic development. Our community has buy-in in ensuring that they are the property owners, they are the homeowners, that they are investing in the neighborhood they actually want to see developed and not saying “Oh I don't want to be here” because people want to be here, people want to be over there and I just wish, I think we become stagnant in our own eyes, of our own walls and what's around us that we don’t see the potential like others do and that’s what I hope in this seat we’re able to reflect why of it’s important for us as community to see the beauty in where we are. How do we create those opportunities better where we are? How do we bring those others to the forefront in our communities to at least see what’s going on in our community and if you have resources how can you just help us? We don’t want you to take over what’s happening but how can you partner with our community to help us better what’s happening now?
DW: And give us growth within the community
NN: Give us growth within the community and also where we’re self-sustaining, we’re not relying on others. We’re able to pick our own selves up by our bootstraps and say this is something that we need to do, this is something that we can do, this is something we must do for our generations to come in order for us to keep the culture, to keep the history, and to keep the significance alive of what northeast Oklahoma City is.
DW: The new developments that are from just west of Hood going towards MLK, is that development going to sustain us economically as a community or is that coming from outsources. Do you understand? Do you know what I’m talking about? You mentioned the health center, I know they have a gym that they’re building in there and some other things now is that part of what you’re speaking about or are you talking outside of that?
NN: I'm talking with that and outside of that. With what you’re talking about this development, the pivot project and what they’ve done with the centennial health and bring that health center and health facility to east 23rd obviously that’s something that has been needed when we’re trying to address the health outcomes for our community when you have cancer morbidity rates that are extremely high, when you have breast cancer rates that are double that in just one zip code than they are across the state. When you have infant mortality rates that are extremely high in northeast community, when you have a clinic or a health facility that comes and addresses those needs, that's what's needed. I know they’re building a YMCA, well that building is supposed to be a YMCA facility if I’m not mistaken that’s connected to the health center, yeah there’s an empty piece that they’re gonna put a YMCA there for access because a lot of people been wanting gyms, they want those things and we also have now a fitness center in that pivot project and we’re getting a lot of businesses that reflect the community and what the community has asked for in that particular development. So that’s a start and it is to benefit the community. With it having the tax increment financed, when you have those types of projects, the purpose of the tax increment finances for these projects to take flight and to build revenue. Therefore now, with the revenue, we’re able to use that funding for projects in the community if we need infrastructure, if we need things that need to be done that money can take place and help to fund those projects.
DW: Do you know why, well you were talking about the urban league / YMCA, but there was also a YMCA on 16th and MLK that has transposed–
NN: The YWCA, that’s actually where I just came from, the National Women and Agricultural Association now owns that building and literally that’s why y’all had to wait on me today, because I was there talking about the opportunities that they are trying to create when it comes to being able to teach farming, growing community gardens, and they also have a childcare there. That is one of those buildings that speaks to the potential also and that’s what she was trying to see, “how we can use that space as an actual real community space, how can we develop that into a better community space for our communities?” She’s looking into possibilities of doing that as well again, those are those partnerships we’re talking about now people saying, “Well I have this, what can we do to better it for our community effort,” how can we teach, again with the food insecurity, how can we teach the access to healthy fruits and vegetables, how can we teach how you can garden in your own backyard, and we still have access to this garden here because it’s free, you can come over here and get what you need at any time. But how can we teach you how to do this in the same process? Those are places and staples again that speak to what northeast Oklahoma City can be and has been.
DW: Do you know why the YMCA shut down and the Urban League took over?
NN: I don’t know, from what I understand I don’t know if it was the membership, maybe there was a decline in membership over the years and they just decided that wasn’t a viable location as far as YMCA is concerned. I know they had a board of directors for that particular Y, so honestly, I don’t know what happened
DW: Okay, two more questions. One, is and I think you’ve touched on that a little bit about the future of northeast Oklahoma City, but the other question is, why is northeast Oklahoma City important to you?
NN: Because it taught me to be the woman that I am. That’s why northeast Oklahoma City is important to me. It raised me. Northeast Oklahoma raised me. I didn’t come from the hardest parts of northeast Oklahoma City but I’m from northeast Oklahoma City, I’m a testament of what northeast Oklahoma City has produced as far as ensuring that people think there’s a certain type of people that come from northeast Oklahoma City that are less than, and I’m here to debunk that myth because there are plenty of leaders, there are plenty of people doing the work who are behind the scenes. I just happen to be a public servant that was elected to this office but there are plenty of public servants that have yet to be named that are doing great work, and that have been produced out of northeast Oklahoma City that a lot of us would not know, unless they told us that they were from northeast Oklahoma City. So, I love northeast Oklahoma City because it is a place that has raised me, and when I say literally as I was running my campaign, I work, pray, and I play in northeast Oklahoma City, because I do and ward 7 that’s everything that I literally do for the most part is part of me and is the fabric of warden 7 and northeast Oklahoma City
DW: And I know when I moved to the northeast Oklahoma City just about a year ago, I was able to vote in ward 7 and just me, I didn’t realize how large ward 7 was, it’s really a tremendous–
NN: It's a hundred and thirty square miles and for those who know or realize, Oklahoma City is six hundred and twenty so you can fit 6 metropolitan cities in Oklahoma City. When you look at ward 7 it’s 136 square miles so we are literally the size of Atlanta, Georgia, we’re literally the size of Las Vegas, Nevada, we’re literally the size of Detroit, Michigan, you know those major type cities, that’s their city size, and this is our ward size. So I try to make sure that I let people know and understand, yes I represent you, but I represent all of ward 7 so please understand when I say, “I have to fight for everyone” I’m literally fighting for the whole ward.
DW: Okay, my last question
NN: Okay
DW: And a lot of people are probably wondering this. Where did the “Nice” come from?
NN: *laughs* That’s funny you ask, okay here’s the story. It’s not even a big fancy story. I was working at the shoe store at Quail Springs Mall called, I was working at “Foot Action” at the time, yeah I was working at Foot Action and there was this dude, this white dude, he was like this ex-Navy dude. He had tattoos everywhere, he was just a cool cat. He used to do graffiti and stuff like that. So, I knew what I wanted to do because I said I wanted to become a DJ. So one day we were at work and I said “I need a DJ name” and we started talking and he’s like “Nikki” and he started writing he was like, “Nikki, Nikki, Nikki, Nikki Nice, Nikki Nice” I said “Oh I like it” So mind you this was like many years before I started using Nikki Nice, I always knew Nikki Nice was going to be my name whenever I decided to go into radio to brand myself as Nikki Nice. So that’s where Nikki Nice came from and thankfully, I was able to use that running for office, because you can use whatever name you want to.
DW: That’s what I was gonna ask you as well, so they didn’t have a problem with you…?
NN: No, according to our state form that you fill out, the county election board, you can write any name that you want to run as.
DW: Really?
NN: Yes, you still have to write out your required full government name, but you can run on whatever name so thankfully I was able to run on this because I don’t know if y’all would have voted for Alberta Nicole Swanegan Owens
DW: They would have been like “who is that?” *laughs*
NN: That’s a long name! Can she get the job done?
DW: Okay well I don’t know of any other questions; do you have anything that you would like to add?
NN: I’ll say with me being elected in this seat right now that makes me the second woman of color to ever serve city council since our city incorporated in 1890. Also the 10th woman to ever serve city council, period, since 1890. So those are things that we should definitely take into account when we’re looking at history and what that looks like and also as we’re talking about the history of northeast Oklahoma City, looking at now with us being able to save the Lyons mansion on 3rd and Central and I was reading over the weekend some of his history and knowing that this man died one of the richest men in Oklahoma and I don’t think… that story I had not known and his beauty products he had sold out of his store was next to his home were like number 2 to madam CJ Walker. So, you it’s that type of history that I don’t think a lot of people realize has come from Oklahoma City, has come from northeast Oklahoma City and even with the ladies with the Oklahoma City Federation of Colored Women’s clubs, when they formed and came to Oklahoma City, there was one woman in attendance from Oklahoma territory when they formed in Washington D.C. in 1896. So, when you look at the likes of women that formed the national federation of colored women’s clubs as far as Francis Harper. Ida B. Wells, Harriet Tubman, and Mary Church Terrell, there was one woman that was from Oklahoma Territory so that’s why I say our story, in my opinion, or story of Oklahoma City, our story of Black history is not told enough because we have made important and significant strides to mark our names in history and until we have that racial reconciliation of things that have been done and taken place in communities especially our northeast communities when it comes to urban renewal and those types of, I would say “take” situations of property that belong to African Americans, it's gonna be very difficult to move where we need to go without those conversations. We have to recognize what has taken place. We have to recognize what has happened and we have to acknowledge it and we have to move forward with it because in my opinion when you don’t have that history you can’t move forward from what you don’t know and once you do know, you can’t say you didn’t know it
DW: With that being said do you know of any individual that would tell their story or would be willing to talk to us to give their stories so we can have it as an oral history
NN: I’m sure there are some more stories to be told and I’m trying to think of who you would need to talk to beyond who you probably already have. So, I think if we were able to have this at our churches, especially with a lot of those seniors. Oh! Our senior center! There’s a senior center on MLK. I would suggest that that would be a place to start, with those seniors that still have that vivid memory of different things that took place around Deep Deuce and the Bricktown area to tell that story now of what they remember during the era. I think they would love to tell that story.
DW: You’re talking senior center 50th and MLK right there?
NN: It’s called the Lincoln Center. Yeah, I would encourage you to start there because I’m thinking we have to capture our story with our seniors before they leave us and move from there as far as understanding and documenting that important history
DW: Okay, well I thank you for our time
NN: Thank you all!