Description:
Ronny Kirk talks about life in Northeast Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewee: Ronny Kirk - RK
Interviewers: Mark Griffin- MG
Rachel Jackson - RJ
Mark Griffin: Ronny Kirk. [sound of paper shuffling] He’s got a lot of neat documents.
Ronny Kirk: I’ve got a lot of stuff. [laughter] Mine, mine, mine starts off from back, 1990.
MG: Uh, to start off, would you state your name for us, and just spell it, just so we have it for the record.
RK: Okay, my name’s Ronny Kirk, live here in Oklahoma City. It’s R-O-N-N-Y, K-I-R-K.
MG: Great! Now, you live here, were you born here? Or where were you born?
RK: I was born McAlester, Oklahoma, Pittsburg County.
MG: Uh, what brought your family to Oklahoma or Oklahoma City?
RK: Well I was born and raised in McAlester, Oklahoma. And I was raised by a single parent. My mother was my mother and my father. She raised me and sheltered me, made sure we ate. Well none of us in our family smoke or drink to date.
MG: And, uh, you were born in McAlester, at what point in your life did you come to Oklahoma City?
RK: I came to Oklahoma City in ‘59.
MG: Okay, so you’ve been here for, wow, over 50 years [laughter], yes, well 60, going on 60 years
RK: Yeah.
MG: Great. So, you remember a lot about Oklahoma City, and you have a lot of memories, and probably a lot of memories of this part of town where we are now.
RK: Yes, I do.
MG: What places- what, what’s the most memorable place for you here in this part of town? Or maybe what are some of the most memorable places for you?
RK: Some of the most memorable places? Well, the most memorable place was Lincoln Park where all the teenagers went for years. And we all
got together, enjoyed life together, we shared the northeast community together, and we all kind of growed up here in OKC.
MG: Can you remember any things that happened, particular memories you have of events that happened at Lincoln Park? What’d it look like? What-
RK: Yes I can, there’s still 82 tables out there today. 82 [laughter] I counted every last one of them. Where uh, that’s where we hung out for years, matter of fact [inaudible] where we started out about 50 kids out there. It went from 50 to a thousand cause me and Bobby Ray and Monk, myself, we had jobs, so everybody would hang out at the park. We brought cars, we brought stereos, we brought it to the park and hang out. And so, since we were working and we were getting all gathered up together everybody started going to the park. And throughout the years it went from 50 people to a thousand. Sometimes 2,000.
MG: Wow!
RK: So everybody just came together and drawed this out for years.
MG: And what activities happened there? And what was it about Lincoln Park that drew everybody there?
RK: You would play your music as loud as you want; you could have a good time; uh, picnic; just have a good time; cruise non-stop around and around the park. So everybody enjoyed themselves.
MG: And how has the place changed?
RK: Well they put Remington Park there and made it one way in and one way out, and so people finally quit going to Lincoln Park, but I continued going because I’ve been feeding kids for 28 years, free.
MG: Really? So tell me about this, this program you have.
RK: I sure can. I started it Juneteenth here in Oklahoma City. I started it. I have every city permit that I got it every year. I have ‘em in this folder so nobody can tell me I didn’t [laughter]. Well you can check and see and find the permit of everybody else that did, but I did. [laughter] [inaudible] from 1990 all the way up until last year!
MG: Wow!
RK: And we are still doing it this year! That’s for Easter that’s coming up. This one is for Martin Luther King, all of them say kids eat free. That’s for Martin Luther King.
MG: This is for an Easter egg hunt and this one’s for MArtin Luther King Day. RK: Yes mhmm. All of them say kids eat free, same as this, the thing we did 28 years ago we never stopped.
MG: Wow, amazing. So, how often do you feed them?
RK: We feed them Halloween, Easter, Juneteenth for three days, and yeah.
MG: And, uh-
RK: And fourth of July, free.
MG: Where do you get sponsorships from?
RK: I worked two jobs all my life, had good people behind me to help me out, couple of them are dead now, they didn’t charge one penny. If we made one penny more than we started out with, we were good with that. We never lost one penny feeding kids. I’ve fed 11,240 kids, and we expect to feed some more Easter, which is in three weeks [laughter].
MG: Now, with Remington Park there, it’s harder to get in and out, it’s not as accessible anymore, is that right?
RK: It’s still accessible, but it’s still one way in. Right now they’re giving the property to the Girl Scouts, which was about two months ago. They’re making their girl scout camp. I think it’s still accessible for us this year, but even if it’s not we’ll be somewhere else doing it, [laughter] that won’t stop us.
Rachel Jackson: So how did this start for you years ago? What made you decide that this was something you were going to do?
RK: One thing, when I was a kid, as I got older and I worked, I wanted to give kids things I didn’t get. I want kids to be kids. Kids now grows up too fast. They grow up too fast, and the reason I can work with kids, cause I feed kids from 13 under. It’s kids 13 and under, a 14-year-old kid will not play with a 13 year old kid, he won’t play with an 8 year old kid, but a 13 year old kid will play with any kid. The 14-year-old kids have already started sitting around listening to grown folks conversation, hiding up on the stairs trying to smoke sitting on the back [inaudible]. Those I gotta leave for other people to take care of. So, I’ve been so successful dealing with the ones that’s under 13, so if it ain't broke, I don’t fix it. So, it works.
MG: So, aside from Lincoln Park, what other places are special to you, or what other places were special to you that might no longer exist, here in this part of town?
RK: In this part of town? Actually it was 2nd Street that was where Abram Ross used to feed kids free. We waited all year, when we kids, just to go to Abram Ross’s birthday party every year. That’s where I got the idea from.
MG: Oh really?
RK: Uh huh.
RJ: Could you repeat that again?
RK: Abram Ross, he had the only black radio station at that time for the northeast side of town.
RJ: And he would feed children on his birthday?
RK: On his birthday every year, up until he died, right there on Second Street.
MG: Are there any buildings that used to be here that you remember that you wish were still here? Or other parks?
RK: Parks?
MG: Yes, parks, buildings, anything that you miss that used to be here in the 1960’s?
RK: Well, I also brought you a list of some of the clubs and places that the people of northeast side of town went for entertainment, right now it’s uh… [papers shufflilng] I got ‘em on this list here. Well there was oh, 40 places that black people were in business had.
MG: Has any of that remained the same, or are any of those places still used for entertainment?
RK: No, most of them are torn down. Not in existence. I’m one of very few. I owned a club called El Dorado, and had it for, it would be 50 years September the 29th coming this year. 50 years, one set of keys, mine [laughter].
MG: And in that club what kind of things went on there?
RK: That’s why I teach kids lifetime skills. I teach them how to help elderly people, fix vacuum cleaners, pull their trash out; I help them with their yards. I teach them how to take the filters out of their parents’ air conditioning, how to wash them out. Stuff they don’t need a certificate for, just good knowledge, and be for the people. I do that today [laughter].
RJ: And how do kids get to come to your center?
RK: All they gotta do is ask [laughter]. Right now I’m in the process of getting my own building built cause I know I don't got too much time left on this Earth. I gotta own my, what am I trying to say, I gotta get all my estimates, my plans for building and everything, and I own this property, and I’m having it built on my own property.
MG: What kind of building and what would be its use? Would it be for the same thing?
RK: It would be just, well I have an area to teach. I got all the equipment. I started buying equipment 17 years ago. I’ve got 5 sets of welders, I’ve got ten different types of different tool boxes, I’ve got jackhammers, anything you could teach a person to use their hands with, I got it. I started buying it a long time ago. I know what I wanted to do it, and I still do it today.
RJ: Do young people from the schools nearby come to your center?
RK: Mmm [no], just friends, people who want their kids to learn something. I’ve got a grandson who’s 12 years old. He’s been to 5 city council meetings just on one of these cards I gave him. He’s been to five city council meetings. He’s met David Hall, that’s the mayor, Mick Cornett, they call him by his name, [laughter]. And he knows.
MG: Oh yeah you’ve got cards from council members and representatives and everything. Good for you, yeah. Now I noticed your shirt is “Ward 7 Justice Makers,” is that your organization?
RK: Ward 7 Justice Seekers.
MG: Justice Seekers.
RK: We’ve got 87 members. I brought y’all one of these here too. That’s my original that’s got everybody's name on it. [inaudible]But I got 87 members. They know I was coming. I got 87 members.
MG: Now what, [reading] “to provide free public access to a variety of cultural and recreational opportunities that enhance the quality of ward 7,” great.
RK: Yes, sir.
MG: Now when did this group start, and was it your idea?
RK: It was my- I’m the president
MG: You’re the president.
RK: We’ve been doing it for 20 years; we’re still doing it today.
MG: What projects other than the feeding that you do at Lincoln Park; what other projects have you sponsored or been involved in?
RK: Mostly what I have sponsored is, well really I haven’t sponsored too much of anything other than sponsoring myself and what I do.
MG: And what are you pushing for?
RK: Okay, I got ya’ll some information on that too. Let me slow down just a second. I went to a City Council meeting March the 26th, March the 17th. [inaudible] [papers shuffling] It’s got 10 City Council meetings, they are all right there, gun control, and those are all the dates of the City Council Meetings. And when I went [inaudible] the Ward 7 Justice Seekers, like I was saying, Lincoln Park has 82 picnic tables out there, it’s the same amount of acreage as all the other parks on the NE side of town together. And all our parks have only got 10 tables. That’s what I went to the City Council meeting for.
MG: Right, to get more tables at the other parks.
RK: And then I wanted more tables cause it’s the elderly people who’s raising the kids now. So, if I took my grandkids to the park, and the two tables are already taken up, then I got to make a pallet on the floor to have dinner with my kids, to lunch with my kids. I’ve got bad knees, arthritis, overweight, can’t get off the ground. I’m trying to eat, enjoy myself with my kids, so we’re trying to get City Council to put more tables in the parks.
MG: Have you had success?
RK: I just went two weeks ago. Another thing I went for, on another City Council meeting, if you go to the parks on the northeast side of town, ain’t no restrooms, if you go behind a tree, it’s indecent exposure of kids that’s in the park, there’s kids in the park, you’re a pedophile, which ain’t got no restrooms in our parks. That’s in one of the meetings. That’s not on the same meeting as the tables. I talk about different things. We also went on this gun control. The reason I went on the gun control because I went to the City Council before the mayor, I mean the governor [pause]. I got to the City Council meeting, two days before she was supposed to sign that bill for guns with no background check. I went to the City council meeting on Tuesday, she was supposed to sign that bill Friday before 12 o’clock. So, I got in there, at the City Council, I know I could get to her through the City Council cause then I can’t go talk to the governor. So I go stand in front of the City Council, and I tell them, this no background check in order to get a gun, I said untrained person, I demonstrated, you’ll see when you pull up a City Council meeting, you sit yourself. I said this is how an untrained person shoots a gun, I said they shoots like this, I said they are gonna kill more people, I said the Cox Center
holds 15,000 people if one person got in there with a gun, you’re way up in that stadium, you know, out of 15,000 people just say 40 of them got a gun, and one man could have start shootin and ducking like this, y’all are gonna hit more people than the man down there trying to shoot. And that was on Tuesday, and by Sunday night, I told my wife, I know somebody is going to tell them, you better watch that video, and at 10 o’clock they come on special news; she didn’t sign the bill cause it made common sense. Two days after she got out of the, I can’t remember the new governors name.
MG/RJ: Stitt.
RK: He just signed the new bill into a law last week. She just turned it down two months ago. Two weeks after he get in, he signs the bill. She just turned it down! So, those are kinds of things we want justice for. To represent me and my family, I also went on another one, my Mexican side of the family. I said you got 7,000 Mexicans coming to the borderline, Oklahoma, I mean to the United States borderline. You’ve got 7,000. I say y’all representing me in my City Council. I said, y’all need to speak to Mr. Trump. You already see 7,000, y’all have got a 30 day warning coming. I said, them rabbis in Pittsburgh they didn’t have no warning, and then Donald Trump come on there, “You need to get them guns.” I said the rabbi didn’t have no warning, but you said give the rabbi guns. I said here it is in the United States, they got a 30 day warning you got 7,000 Mexicans coming to the line. I said, 7000 Mexicans, only 1,000 of them are probably men. The worst of them is women and kids. Get a military handgun instead of AR-15s. You’re going to see that too on one of those meetings. I do not talk about the same thing every time I go to a City Council meeting. It’s justice for things that a Mexican family, people for the Oklahoma and people for the east side. I just don’t speak for one thing. That’s yours [laughter] that way you get those, and I brought those for you. And I brought these here, these tell about Lincoln Park when it started back in 1970, which started out with a handful of people, and it went up to 3000 people. It got the name before we did, stuff like that. This right here, it tells about when I started my non-profit organization, I didn’t know there was people that would help you, as far as I got in school was 6th grade, but I got a good common knowledge, good sense, and so I didn't know that there were organizations out there would give you a dime. I worked two jobs to make sure I advanced well from no help from nobody. I really didn’t care about help because I was just doing stuff.
RJ: What kind of work have you done?
RK: Well I’ve been a carpenter, welder, plumber, sheet-rock, carpet layer [laughs], glass cutter. What kind of work I ain’t done? I worked for McKinley Property for 20 years rebuilding any property they had, so the best properties all around town. I trained Gary, he went from mechanic, to doing everything I know how to do [laughter]. And as well, he liked taking care of kids too. We don’t care about making no
money, we enjoyed life. We want these kids to learn something, y’know they come around, and they don’t even know why they are wearing their pants too low. They think it’s cute, but it’s not.
MG: In the 60 years you’ve lived here, you’ve probably seen a lot of big events happen in this part of town, what are some of the things you remember most in your 60 years that happened right here in this area?
RK: The big events that happened were when we got something. Down here in Washington Park, me and Gary does that for these kids. Some people down there do stuff for profit, and if they don’t make no money, they don’t do it no more. They’re in it for the wrong reasons. But when we start out with no greed, then we alright. So the big events that happened were the events that we organized. People enjoy themselves, everything we do we tell them, don’t come if you’re not going to bring no kids with you. If you come and bring kids, and we run out of food, we never run out. That means you did your job because you brought your kids [laughter]. When we have an event, we don’t have one or two prizes to give away, we give them 5 bicycles, television, we let the little kids, whoever won, go pick out the one that he want. That means you have to teach your kid to ride that big ol’ bicycle. That’s why we do stuff, we do everything to make the family come together. Everything we do. To make me run out of food when we have an event, you’d have to get a truckload of kids, if we got that, we still are going to take whatever penny we made and go get some more until the event is over. We alright.
RJ: So the next big event is at Easter time?
RK: It’ll be Easter and the 4th of July, our events don’t ever stop. It’s the holidays and kids involved, you’ll see from all the information I brought you. Even all the certificates, Juneteenth, Easter’s one day, 4th of July is one day, Juneteenth is Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
RJ: All in Lincoln Park?
RK: And then up at my business, we got a block party permit to block the streets off. Now just when, when City Council is getting ready to close all the schools down, not all the schools, but it’s good they’re bringing all the schools together. That means that the education will be a whole lot better for them. But the schools that they’re already fixing to close on the NE side of town, they already got tornado shelters there, all 5 tornado shelters, the schools are closed. I went to City Council two weeks ago, and I said since you’re fixing to close the schools down, we’re alright with that, but you guys got schools in the area on the NE side of town, let the people use them. The TV stations, they already come and tell you block by block where it’s coming to and ask the people, why are you going to hide in the closet
when an F5 tornado shelter built right next to your house? It don’t make no common sense.
MG: What else besides tornado shelters would you like to see these schools used for?
RK: Number one is the tornado shelter [laughter], number one. And the schools, I’d like to have one, to get the schools to give me one of them for a dollar cause they do that and let me have a school, and I wouldn’t have to build one cause there’s one already there. There are people that are retired that would help teach these kids some lifetime skills, fix lawn mowers, weed-eaters, vacuum cleaners, plumbing.
MG: Have you brought this up to the City Council?
RK: On one of the meetings on the back of that card. You heard it yourself. I’ve got 80 members that I showed you that will help do it. They don’t want no money. They are all my age [laughter]. They want to see their kids get something out of life. Instead of all these kids, they can’t even play, they’re shooting each other, They ain’t got nothing else to do, they think it’s funny, you know what I mean? There are a lot of people that are up in age that are willing to teach their kids something. Everybody can’t work with computers, they just can’t. So I got people willing to help them. I don’t want no money.
RJ: So what kind of responses have you gotten from City Council?
RK: I’m just lighting a fire up under that council about some of these things they need to get done. One, we are going to get those restrooms. We’re going to get them probably this year in the parks. If I have to go around myself to make them look bad, I’m going to do it [laughter]. If we don’t have a restroom there, I’m going to have the people come down, and I’m going to have a restroom put there, the City is going to do it. I brought another deal for you. I hope I’ve got it in this book here. It’s where I went to this meeting with the parks department, not the City Council, I met with the parks department, and we’ve been going to the - yeah that’s the- we were going to 23rd, yeah I forgot that, we were going to 23rd and Sooner Road, there’s a nice area there, like a beach, we’ve been going there for 10 years- 10! Feeding kids free, sandcastle contests, cleaning the area up; we raked the area that we needed. WE cut and mowed that area, the city closed that down and put a gate up there, after going there for 10 years. Oh we started out at 4th and Martin Luther King, right where the dam is, we started there first. Back in the 80’s [laughter], we started there first, and then they put in that dam there, and they blocked us off from going there. Then we went to 23rd and Sooner Rd. We were doing the same thing; I’ve got pictures where we were cleaning up the rocks and stuff all right down the street, right there on 4th and Martin Luther King where that dam is. We cleaned all that up, nice little area. We’d go down there; we weren’t disturbing nobody. We’d have our parties and stuff there, and I guess that was too good; I have a note
that we wrote to the city. They would send highway patrols who would sit up on the side of the river and watch us party, but nobody ever did anything because everything was [inaudible]. Then they closed that down, we started there first. Then last year, I went to the- we went to 23rd and Sooner Rd. We started going and taking pictures of people in the park. We had 57-5- a hundred people out there for about ten years, that’s on 23rd and Sooner Rd. Everybody would just hang, we weren’t on the white side of town we were on the East side, and a whole bunch of college kids went out there one year, one time after ten years, a bunch of college kids come up there, they were black and white, and they set a bonfire when we were leaving, and they put a- they closed it off. Well last year I went back to a meeting at the parks department; the City Council set that meeting up for me to go talk to people in the parks department, and me and Joy went and met with them at 9 o’clock in the morning right here at the city hall, and we sat down there in the meeting them them, and the man said, “Mr. Kirk, we should have opened that park up for you years ago.” He said, “Give us a chance; we’re going to go down there and pave the street down there for ya, and the city will pay for the restrooms.” That’s the next place I’m going in two weeks to talk to him before I double back to the City Council, that’s already my plan [laughter].
MG: So, it’s been a year and nothing has happened?
RK: And nothing has happened, he probably, the City set this meeting up for me to go talk to the man over at the city parks department, and so we waited and we waited and nothing ever happened, so that’s my plan, and Joy just said to me, “when are you going to the next City Council meeting?” and I said well I’m going to double-back and go to the parks department first, and then I’m going to City Council. Because I ain’t going to let this man promise me something like the city said, he said they were supposed to have did that years ago. They went ahead and put a street down there years ago, and they never did. And we didn’t care about no street, we had a good time taking our families down there. Taking those cars that you can drive around, flying our kites down there, simple stuff.
RJ: So, in Oklahoma City with the development that’s happening in the center of the city, what’s your response to that? You know there’s this new park, Scissortail park?
RK: That is so nice. The city is growing, and that’s progress. We’ve just got to go along with the progress. It’s open for everybody to go and have a great time, it is. A lot of people in this town don’t ever get 25 miles away from home. A lot of people ain’t ever been across Broadway, just haven’t. A lot of them didn’t know about this meeting because a lot of them still ain’t got cable. And like me, I’ve got a smartphone, but don’t know how to use it [laughter].
MG/RJ: We’re right there with you, yeah [laugher]
MG: We’ve got parks, we’ve got gun control issues, what else would you like to see happen in the city, especially on this side of town?
RK: Over on the NE side, one, enjoy the parks, and have restrooms down there, so people don’t get arrested or get a 380 dollar fine, or charged for nothing because there ain’t no restrooms. It just don’t make no sense. Don’t need to be listed as a pedophile for the rest of your life cause you ain’t got not restrooms for us to use. We plan on- you know they got a, a lot of people on the NE side don’t know they’ve got a tourist train on the East side! A train, it’s green and yellow, it’s beautiful! White people be sitting all inside of this train, and people don’t even see it because it’s on this certain area on the East side, you wouldn’t even, you don’t even know it’s there. Sometimes, depending on the time of day, there will be 2 or 300 white people on the train, maybe some blacks, the educated ones, but the one’s are not aware because they don’t even advertise that it’s over there. It’s been over there for two years. I’ve got pictures of it! I couldn’t believe it! I followed it from 60th and Marymount all the way to Lincoln Park just to see where it was going because I surprised myself. To see a conductor come out and stop, a lot of people on the East side don’t even know it. They don’t even know it.
MG: Well, thank you for sharing with us, this has been exciting to hear about.
RK: I’ve got some stuff- that’s for y’all. This here tells about all the businesses and stuff that’s been on the East side, the addresses and everything.
MG: That’s quite a list
RK: I brought this one for you too because I’ the one who picked up Muhammad Ali, and you’re going to see it on one of these City Council meetings when you watch it. I’m the one who picked him up at the airport. Yeah, this is about Justice Seekers.
RJ: What year was this?
RK: ‘74,‘94? I can’t even remember
MG: I would say ‘74?
RK: Yeah ‘74!
MG: And this is the Justice Seekers?
RK: Yeah, and I brought this here for you too. Everything we do, the stuff we did 28 years ago we still do today. I brought that for you too, so that you know everything about me. Don’t want you to halfway know nothing [laughter].
RJ: And this is the committee that you’re on?
RK: Yeah! They’ve got me in the black history hall of fame now too! And this is when I sent a statement. I guess I’ve been in the Black Chronicle I guess about 10 times, where I had a meeting at the Oklahoma City Police Department, at the Life Church, and the newspaper said I just had a meeting with two people at Springlake Park, but no I didn’t, so I wrote the original order, I sent it to the Newspaper, I wrote the original statement down, and I gave that out to my friends, and when I went out to the Council I gave them a copy of it. So when you’re watching those City Council meetings you’ll see me hand them a book full of information in it. The City Council got one, both the mayors got one, and the new City Council Nikki Nice got one. This book, the same information y’all got, both the mayors got. And everybody got it but Ron Noy, who was years ago.
RJ: Well that’s good you bring the information with you
RK: Only thing I’ve got is my memories with me [laughter].
RJ: Well thank you so much, this is great information for the project thinking about community, and this is something that you spend a lot of time doing.
RK: A lot of time
RJ: Thank you for taking the time to come out today.
MG: And thank you for all the work you do!
RK: I like people to know what we did. It’s alright when my friends on the East side and people who’ve supported me all these years , they know. But a lot of people do not know.
RJ: It’s very important
MG: It’s a shame that they don’t know, it’s really great stuff.
RK: And then when you’re watching them City Council meetings on the back of that card, you’ll know more [laughter]. A whole lot more.
RJ: Well, thank you very much, we appreciate you.
RK: Well thank you
RJ/MG: [thank yous]