Description:
Patricia Grizzard talks about life in Northeast Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewee: Patricia Grizzard- PG
Interviewer: Rachel Jackson - RJ
Rachel Jackson: Would you please state your name and spell it for the record?
Patricia Grizzard: Okay, my name is Patricia A. Grizzard, G-R-I-Z-Z-A-R-D, but I go by Pat.
RJ: Pat, could you tell us when and where you were born?
PG: I was born in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma on August 7th 1949.
RJ: Excellent, so do you know what brought your family to Oklahoma?
PG: No, I really don’t, my mom was born in Wagner, Oklahoma, and she was an only child.
RJ: She was?
PG: Yes.
RJ: And, so, what brought her to Oklahoma City?
PG: That I really don’t know.
RJ: Okay, Wagner is up there in Cherokee country, do you have any native descendancy?
PG: I really don’t know. My aunt looks like she has some descent. I am interested in learning more about that. I am joining an organization that looks into ancestry, so I’m looking forward to learning more about that.
RJ: Yes, okay, what is the most memorable lace, or what are some of the most memorable places on the East side for you?
PG: When I was growing up, I used to go to All Black Theaters; one was the Aldridge on 2nd street, and the other was Jewel Theater, which was on 4th street.
RJ: What memories do you have of those places?
PG: The Aldridge, I loved going there, they both had good shows. The Aldridge had good food, and I loved foot-long hot dogs [laughter] at the Aldridge, I loved going there because they had good food.
RJ: Yes, and did you get anything on your hotdog?
PG: I believe we had chili and onions.
RJ: That sounds delicious! What did the inside of it look like when you walked in? Do you have memories of when you walked in the front door of the Aldridge, what it looked like in there?
PG: The snack bar, and then when you’d go inside, it was more or less a meeting place where people met their friends.
RJ: To go see a movie?
PG: Right.
RJ: Do you remember what colors or they had it painted?
PG: Like I said I was much younger, so I can’t really remember too much of that. It probably had pictures on the wall.
RJ: Do you remember a particular movie that you saw there?
PG: I can’t remember a picture there, but at the Jewel I remember they had The Children of the Damned. I remember that was one [laughter] of those old scary movies here. That was at the Jewel.
RJ: And the Jewel that was the one-
PG: On 4th street, right.
RJ: Is it the one that’s still there?
PG: Yeah that building is still there, but it’s boarded up, but that building’s still there.
RJ: Yes, which one did you go to more often?
PG: The Aldridge.
RJ: The Aldridge, was it closer to home?
PG: No, cause I lived way on 14th street.
RJ: What was the closest intersection? 14th and?
PG: 14th and Kelham.
RJ: 14th and Kelham?
PG: Right.
RJ: Did you walk to the theater?
PG: I’m trying to, I probably called the bus cause that was my main source of transportation at the time.
RJ: Okay, and what other places do you remember?
PG: I danced a lot, so I went to the Y on 4th street, and during that time, that’s where young people would go and dance.
RJ: Okay, what kind of dances did you do?
PG: We did the swim, I can’t remember all of them. The monkey [laughter]. I can’t remember all of them, and slow danced.
RJ: Was it boys and girls?
PG: Right.
RJ: Did they have dance classes?
PG: No.
RJ: No? So, you just went there to dance?
PG: Right.
RJ: Was that on the weekends or?
PG: On the weekends
RJ: That sounds like fun. Okay, so you went to the Y to dance. Any other places that you remember?
PG: Basically those were the things that I did, growing up.
RJ: Okay, where did you go to school?
PG: In my neighborhood, I went to Truman Elementary,and then I went to here, which was called Moon, F.D Moon, I went here for the 7th and 8th grade.
RJ: Right here in this building?
PG: In this building. And then I finished my high school at the old Douglass highschool, on Eastern, from the 9th to the 12th grade.
RJ: Okay, do you have any memories from highschool that you’d like to share? Or middle school, or?
PG: The significant memory wasn’t a very pleasant one, I had scoliosis as a child, and I had to wear a back brace to see if it would correct it, which it did not. And I had to wear a heavy back brace for, I think, two summers, and I had to walk from home to here, so that wasn’t very fun.
RJ: No, I can’t imagine. Did you have a doctor in the area that was watching over you?
PG: At that time, I went to Children’s Hospital, and then it didn’t, the back brace did not correct the problem, so I ended up having surgery, so I missed most of the, I believe it was, the 8th grade. And then, I had to end up having a tutor, so I could complete the 8th grade.
RJ: Okay, goodness gracious, going through a lot as a young girl.
PG: And then, I believe it was my senior year, my sister was taking myself and two of my good friends in the neighborhood, unfortunately, we had an accident, but it was the hand of God, he had me looking back in the backseat, so I don’t recall the accident. I woke up the next day in the hospital with my sister.
RJ: Where did that accident occur?
PG: We were going on our way to school in the neighborhood. So, obviously, we didn’t make it to school that day. And I ended up having plastic surgery on my face, and by the grace of God I’m still here.
RJ: Did you have the surgery at Children’s?
PG: I don’t know. It was done by a prominent plastic surgeon at the time.
RJ: Okay, interesting. Boy, Pat that’s a story. What about from High School is that when you would go to the dances at the Y? Did you have any dances at the high school?
PG: No, I went to one prom, it was my junior year, and a cousin and I and a best friend of mine, we went one year.
RJ: Wow, you went together, yeah. And where was this prom heald?
PG: You know what I can’t even remember [laughter]. It was a proper place somewhere. I can’t remember. It was so long ago.
RJ: Have you lived in NE OKC your whole life, or did you move and come back?
PG: We lived, I lived off of Lottie until I was in Kindergarten I started at Truman in Kindergarten through 5th grade I believe. So I
stayed in my neighborhood until I went to college. Actually, until I married so I stayed in that house for a long time.
RJ: You did.
PG: Off 14th.
RJ: What was the address off 14th street?
PG: 1713 NE 14th.
RJ: 1714 NE 14th.
PG: Right.
RJ: Closest to 14th and Kellham you said?
PG: Right, actually, my nephew, my oldest brother’s son, I think he lives there now, so that home has a lot of memories.
RJ: So it’s still in your family?
PG: It has a lot of memories.
RJ: Wow, what are some of the brightest memories from that place?
PG: The most happiest memories is when my family, my mom and, the family would get together for Thanksgiving and my cousins, coming from a small family of four, my sister and two brothers, and my cousins family, she has 5 children, and her family and my family would get together on Thanksgiving in my mother’s home. And then at Christmas time we would get together at her home. And at that time, we had an aunt, and she would join us as well. Back in that day when my Aunt, her health was poor, she would stay with us for a while, and then when her son came home from the army my aunt lived in Spencer Oklahoma, then he came and he lived with her and during that time we would take care of my aunt.
RJ: Wow, so you had a lot of family. How many were living there when your aunt was there?
PG: It was the four children and my mother.
RJ: Okay, and then your aunt, so six of you. Did you share rooms with your brothers and sisters?
PG: It was just a two bedroom, so we made it work.
RJ: Made it work. Yes, like people do [laughter]. Wow, and so Christmases stand out to you?
PG: I’m sorry?
RJ: Your Christmases you said stand out to you?
PG: Mhmm [yes]
RJ: Do you have a favorite Christmas in your memory?
PG: Oh yes. I forget how old I was, I well you know I believed in Santa, and I could swear at one time I heard Santa on the roof, well you know I was a child [laughter]. Just in my mind I could swear there was Santa on the roof.
RJ: Yes, but you were very excited to hear him at the time. And then, would your family open presents in the morning or in the evening?
PG: We would always, it would always be on Christmas Day.
RJ: Christmas day, and you would have a meal?
PG: Right, and also during that time that my aunt was living, on New Years, we would go [inaudible], on New Year's Day and have dinner out there. That’s when she lived in Spencer.
RJ: Okay, and where did, what was her home like?
PG: Like I said, it was in Spencer, and at that time she didn’t have the plumbing, the facilities.
RJ: It was a simple home
PG: Yes
RJ: Was it in the country?
RJ: Like I said it was in Spencer, before the paved road, so it was the dirt road, and she inherited it from her sister, and I had an aunt and uncle, before that they had a garden, they had farm animals, I loved to go on out there at that time because I loved the aunt and uncle, and I loved the aunt, and I loved to see her wash her clothes and, she had a wash house, and she used this big black kettle to wash her clothes and hang up her laundry. And she would use this little bottle, this little bluing bottle, for the whitening of her clothes, and I used to go out there and watch my uncle feed the pigs. It was just, you know, growing up a city girl, just watching the country life.
RJ: Yes, what were your aunt and uncles names?
PG: Bertha and Walter
RJ: Aunt Bertha and Uncle Walter. Were they Grizzards?
PG: No, Grizzard is my married name. My maiden name was Traywicks. I’ve always had a unique last name [laughter].
RJ: Yes, how do you spell Traywicks?
PG: It’s how it sounds: Tray-Wicks
RJ: T-R-A-Y-?
PG: W-I-C-K-S. Tray-wicks, Traywicks.
RJ: Traywicks, and was that their last name, Bertha and Walter?
PG: No, it was Harris.
RJ: Okay, Traywicks was your maiden name
PG: That was my mother’s last name.
RJ: And their last name was Harris.
PG: Mhm [yes].
RJ: And they lived out in Spencer, OK. Would you spend a lot of time with them in the Summers or?
PG: On the weekends, and sometimes during the Summer.
RJ: It was a fun place to be.
PG: Yeah, they were very nice. My Aunt was just old fashioned whenever it rained and stormed, she would have us just sit down and be quiet. She said “That’s the Lord just doin his work.” And like on Sunday, she didn’t listen to the radio, you didn’t play cards, you didn’t do anything [laughter], you just sit down. But they were very good, Christian people. I loved that they were very loving. I used to be a tattle-tale [laughter] and my Uncle he would sit me down, and he said “baby, people don’t like people that tell all the time” [laughter]. I remember that one thing he would tell me. And then my Aunt, when you would be greedy and you would say “now you asked for it, you’re going to eat for it.” Those are two things I remember both of them saying, so. They were beautiful; I really did love them.
RJ: Wow, yes, it sounds like it. Your face is lit up; you’ve got a big smile just thinking about them. You mentioned earlier that you went to college; where’d you go to college?
PG: Central State, Edmond. That’s where I met my best friend.
RJ: Oh really? I went to UCO too. It was UCO when I went there, but Central State before.
PG: Yeah, her name is Barbara.
RJ: Barbara is your friend. And how did y’all meet?
PG: Matter of fact, we met, we were in line I guess to register, and I’m normally just a quiet person, but she’s talkative so when she started talking we just started talking, and I was staying on campus, and she stayed off of campus, and then I invited her to come and visit me in the room, and we just hit it off. We’ve been friends for, I guess, 50 years.
RJ: And where was she from?
PG: She is originally from Chicago, but her mom and dad were divorced, so she was staying here with her dad. But, I got to meet her mom, I think it was that year that I went with her to see her mom for Thanksgiving I think. That year or either the next year, I got to go to Chicago with her to visit her mom. We rode the train, so that was very good for me. My first time riding a train and first time visiting Chicago.
RJ: That’s good. What was your major in College?
PG: Probably business administration because that’s what I ended up doing when- I only went one year. I was rebellious, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. And then I, during that time in the 70’s there was a special program by the government, and they helped you get back on track, and kind of refresher course where you took business courses such as different business courses, shorthand, math, and things that would help you get back on track. And I was able to work for the Federal Government.
RJ: Oh that’s nice! And you went to work where?
PG: At FAA [Federal Aviation Administration].
RJ: Ah okay, FAA.
PG: But during the highschool times, during my time, I graduated in ‘67, during that time, I worked two summers at Tinker, and I worked one summer and one school term at FAA.
RJ: Okay, and did you have a career at the FAA?
PG: Yes
RJ: How long did you work there?
PG: Almost 33 years.
RJ: My goodness, that’s quite a career. What kind of work did you do for the FAA?
PG: I worked on the computer. I started off as a statistical typist, and then I ended up in the print shop. That was not my choice when I had my last baby I worked in a particular area where we, our function was to just do work for the whole center, but it was, unfortunately it was decentralized. And when I was on maternity leave the choice was made for me to work in the print shop, and then when I returned my job was a printing specialist, but I still used the computer. And what I typed, it was sent out to the print shop. So what we did, it went all over the center and sometimes off site. So the forms, we would do things like that.
RJ: Okay
PG: And also books, booklets, whatever we typed it went to the print shop, and it went on center or off center.
RJ: I see, okay, so that was before personal computers when people had to have things printed they had to have a person in your position draft them up and get them ready to go, and send them to the print shop.
PG: Right, it was all on the printer, it was all on the computer.
RJ: Interesting
PG: So we did anything from forms to actually handbooks, books.
RJ: Now, were these very big computers?
PG: Right, just your regular computer.
RJ: Like the ones we have today?
PG: Yes
RJ: When did you retire?
PG: In June 2015.
RJ: Okay, very recently!
PG: No, no, no, I’m sorry, 2005.
RJ: 2005.
PG: And I was so glad! [laughter] I had paid my dues.
RJ: You were ready to be done.
PG: Yes
RJ: Well, congratulations on having a successful career!
PG: Thank you.
RJ: Yes, so when you think about this part of Oklahoma City, what for you has changed the most?
PG: I was looking at that, thinking about that, on these questions. Unfortunately, I can no longer, I would like to show my grandson where I went to elementary school, but unfortunately that school was vandalized and burned down. And-
RJ: Truman was?
PG: Truman Elementary. And also-
RJ: I’m sorry Pat, where was it located?
PG: It was at 14th and I lived at 1713, oh it was on Kelham. Right down from Avery Chapel. And also, as I was coming here today, I was noticing right off of 36th and Kelley, how through the MAPS program they had finally fixed that two way road, where it’s now a three way, and it looks so nice, over there by Northeast school. But that, I would say 30-40 years it took for that improvement, but at least it’s there.
RJ: Wow. The widening of the road?
PG: Right, and the sidewalks on both sides. I was just looking at that, and I said well, finally. But that was through the MAPS program.
RJ: The MAPS program did that. So, if you had to guess, why do you supposed it took so long for them to do it?
PG: I don’t know. I would just think that it wasn’t a priority.
RJ: Right, okay, what street or neighborhood seems to have undergone the most change from your childhood memories?
PG: Changed for the better?
RJ: Yeah, you can think of it that way or changed for the worse, either one. Maybe you can talk about both
PG: Well, I’m in the NorthWest part of town now since I was married. NE, it’s changed somewhat, and I would think that’s from the MAPS side because looking at my old part of the neighborhood, and it's changed. And I think it’s because of the MAPS. And there again, I think it’s just priority. It’s sad, but at least our children are getting the benefit from it now. Like the school right down from where I used to live, it used to be named John F. Kennedy, why they changed the name, I don’t know.
RJ: What’d they change it to?
PG: It’s now Moon I think. I don’t know why they changed it. Because Bobby Kennedy came out when they named the school, why they changed it, I don’t know.
RJ: Do you remember, were you here when he came?
PG: I just remember him coming! I wasn’t there at the actual ceremony, and I’ve noticed improvements on the park itself.
RJ: Which park?
PG: It’s right down, it’s off of 16th and MLK. There’s a school on one side and a park on the other side. Yeah, it’s cause, when I first lived in that area, it was just a lot of trees. But cause this, of course that’s a big improvement, was so many years ago.
RJ: I’m going to go say something to these folks outside, I’m not sure they know we’re in her recording.
PG: And also, some memories, I would go down Martin Luther King, there were old gentlemen under these trees playing dominoes. Things like that, those are kind of fond memories.
RJ: Yeah, that sounds like a good memory!
PG: But, you know things have to change, but those were kind of fond memories.
RJ: Yeah, watching the older men, you said play dominoes?
PG: Right.
RJ: Oh wow, I love to play dominoes. And in that very same park?
PG: Mhm [yes], and then the Y there, right there on, well it’s no longer the Y, it’s another establishment, it’s an agriculture building, right on the corner of 16th and MLK. It used to be the Y, but it was sold to another group. That’s a change. But I refer back to
the NE because that’s where I grew up. I didn’t grow up on the NW side of town. But, I do know it was on the NW, things such as where I am on North Penn, it seems like there’s more priority over there because of where the Walmart is. I remember growing up when we would come that way there used to just be a vacant field. But they have widened that road, they have taken better care of it. Of course where there’s commerce, there’s money, they’re going to take care of that. Just saddens me where priority is.
RJ: I agree.
PG: And then it saddens me in certain neighborhoods where my children grew up on the North Highland area, that school is going to be closed down. I used to be involved in the neighborhood association, but people if you don’t have people, like-minded people, wanting betterment for their community then there is going to be change. And the school is going to be closed down now, but I remember when I was in the neighborhood association their priority was not the school, it was like beautification for the yards. I mean that’s important, but sometimes when your children are grown and gone your priority is not the school anymore.
RJ: Right. Yeah North Highland School did your children go to school there?
PG: Yes they did. And I had, well I do have a friend that’s a teacher, she taught there, and I helped her out. And then I also helped her out at Graystone. But it’s, I guess it’s just where people's hearts are sometimes. When your heart is not there, you don’t put forth an effort, your priority is not there.
RJ: That’s true. What building or business do you wish most was still here?
PG: When I was growing up, I think it was on 6th St, I don’t know if it was 6th or Stonewall, but it was a place called, I don’t know exactly the name of it, but they made roasted chicken, and it was the most delicious chicken. But I wish it was still here. I don’t know how many years it was there, but it was very good.
RJ: [laughter] Did they serve anything else besides chicken, would you get side items?
PG: I’m pretty sure, but all I remember is the roasted chicken [laughter].
RJ: It stands out. How often would you go there?
PG: I don’t know maybe once or twice a month, or something like that. It was good.
RJ: Sounds good, making me hungry. What did the building look like? Is the building still there?
PG: I can’t remember. I doubt it, I doubt that it’s still there.
RJ: Do you remember what it looked like when you were little?
PG: Nah.
RJ: No, was it painted?
PG: I can’t remember.
RJ: Just remember that chicken [laughter]. So what about some of these places, or the neighborhood has remained the same?
PG: Okay, there’s one place on the NE side of town, it’s called Geronimo’s. I didn’t go there that ofte, but he would sell the best donuts, and he also has other types of food, but he’s more famous for his donuts [laughter]. And he’s even been on, I think, Discover Oklahoma. So he’s been there quite some time, so he’s been there a long time.
RJ: Wow [cut off by someone working for library about needing recording device]
PG: So, he’s famous for his donuts, and he’s still there, matter of fact he’s about two-doors down from the Y, what used to be the Y, it’s called it’s not an agricultural building, the old Y which is not an agricultural building. Yeah, so he’s pretty famous, [laughter]. Just say Geronimo’s and they’ll say oh yeah
RJ: Geronimo’s
PG: I want to say it’s Geronmio’s on the NE side of town. He’s been there I’ll say 30 plus or maybe 40.
RJ: Okay, long time. And where’s it located?
PG: Just say off of 16th and Martin- MLK.
RJ: There’s a lot going on there in your memory. You’ve mentioned several things at that intersection.
PG: Yeah
RJ: Okay, well do you know anybody else that you suggest that we talk to before we end our interview? I’m going to have you sing release form too.
PG: Okay, and not right now
RJ: Thank you Miss Pat
PG: You’re welcome.