Description:
Latoris Curtis talks about life in Northeast Oklahoma City.
Transcript:
Interviewer: Well today I have the great, great pleasure sitting down and talking with yes, my baby brother. You were born the baby brother and you will die my baby brother.
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: Yeah you know we always call you the baby boy, you have that title forever. Tell me your full name, your complete full name, your date of birth, and the city in which you were born.
Curtis: My name Latoris Dennis Curtis I was born in 10/13 of 1950 in Oklahoma City OK.
Interviewer: At university hospital?
Curtis: At university hospital that’s correct.
Interviewer: All right and what's your mother and your father's name?
Curtis: My mother’s name is Helen Jo Curtis and my father, his name was King David Curtis.
Interviewer: And your mother—your father passed away, that would be daddy, passed away in 1985 and I think he was about 56 or so years old. He was a young man.
Curtis: Yes he was.
Interviewer: Passed away of lung cancer and then Mama has since remarried and her husband's name was Henry David Arthur and her full name including her maiden name is Helen Joe Hill Curtis Arthur, that’s our mama, and I talked with her a few weeks ago and it was a delightful conversation that we had together. Now one of the things you told me is that I couldn't do a memoir of the fairgrounds without interviewing my baby brother and so, I’m giving you the opportunity today to step up to the plate.
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: And I’m not real sure of what your memories encompass. Well, I’m not real sure of that because you and I have never, have seldom sat down and actually talked about different things about childhood. We just do little spot checks, you know, every now and then we have conversation. So, tell me what are some of your earliest memories of growing up at the fairgrounds?
Curtis: My earliest memories, as I can recall, I believe I was probably about six years old I guess and that's when we lived on 4th St street
Interviewer: Okay, on 4th Street you would have been something like three or four
Curtis: Okay, okay…. Yeah okay I remember that we lived in a duplex. Was it a duplex? I believe it was.
Interviewer: It was actually a triplex.
Curtis: A triplex yeah
Interviewer: There were two in the front and we were on the back.
Curtis: On the back section, I remember that. Also, there was a house behind our house.
Interview: It was another duplex.
Curtis: Another duplex okay,
Interviewer: Behind us.
Curtis: I remember that.
Interviewer: Do you remember any of the people that lived in those places?
Curtis: No, I do not.
Interviewer: Well then I’m going to kind of refresh your memory a little bit. In the front duplex lived the Porters and the Porters had a lot of children, there were a lot of—was it the Porters or the Boones? The Boones, the Boones… and the Boones had a lot of children and that was a small apartment and we lived in the back where there were three sections to our little apartment: there was the front section where the layaway bed was the sofa bed, there was the middle section where mom's bed and the kitchenette—the kitchenette was the little table which also doubles her vanity she had her vanity in there and it was also where she did her sewing.
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: And then on one of the inside that one of the size was the little bathroom and right next to that was the kitchen it was so small but almost called the kitchenette, the very small kitchen so that was that was how the house was so that the ones up in the front where larger, but the Boones, the Boones had—the Boones had like about seven or eight kids there were a lot of kids out there. That on one side other side was the Dixons. I’m not—Geor—Geor—Georgetta Dixon, Georgetta Dixon was one of the girls.
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: Georgetta Dixon and the boy there was a boy that had—later on when we lived on Jordan—something happened to his eye. Remember when the boy with the…?
Curtis: Yes, yes I remember
Interviewer: his eye was injured?
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: When they lived they know that they lived there before we moved
Curtis: Okay, I didn’t know that
Interviewer: What else do you remember about that area? That was at 1720 1/2
Together: NE 4th Street
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: 1720
Interviewer: Mm hmm and a half in the back and so— and so you remember it was across the street from our triplex?
Curtis: I believe there was a Jordan shoe store? Repair—repair, shoe repair I remember that real well. Mr. Jordan, he seemed to be a very smart, I guess I’ll say… gentlemen as for he was good in his skills as for repairing shoes … I believe he was there with his wife also.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: They worked there together.
Interviewer: Yes.
Curtis: And we would go over there occasionally and visit with them or talk with them, so I remember that. In that immediate area, was that not the only place of business, black-owned business in the area? I mean—
Interviewer: No, there were several.
Curtis: In that direct?
Interviewer: Right there—he was the only business right there on the corner, that was on the corner of NE 4th and Rhode Island.
Curtis: Rhode Island
Interviewer: Mm hmm, NE 4th and Rhode Island
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: Okay, and across from that was that apartment complex where Sis and Butch and them used to live.
Curtis: Oh yeah, yeah I remember that
Interviewer: ‘Cuz that was where Sis, who was Butch’s mama, used to babysit us.
Curtis: Mm, okay. There was a row of apartments—
Interviewer: It was lots
Curtis: There was a line of them
Interviewer: It was lots of apartments in there.
Curtis: A good eight to twelve I want to say.
Interviewer: At least, it was huge.
Curtis: It was real nice and it had, I think I recall them always being… Who was it that lived west of us?
Interviewer: In the house?
Curtis: In the house
Interviewer: That was—that was….
Curtis: Jordan? George?
Interviewer: George and [unknown name] didn’t move there later.
Curtis: Oh okay
Interviewer: They moved there later
Curtis: Okay,
Interviewer: But are you talking about on the other side of the sidewalk?
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: They had chickens in the backyard?
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: You remember?
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: We called them Mama and Papa, we called them—no we called them Auntie and Uncle
Curtis: Oh okay
Interviewer: And they were— I’ll tell you exactly who they were. They were the grandparents of Jimmy Carthen.
Curtis: Oh! Okay…
Interviewer: They were his maternal grandparents because their last name was Heard—
Curtis: Heard…
Interviewer: And we called them Auntie and Uncle and she was like almost like one of those not quite Aunt Jemima like, but she always had an apron on and her—she had the gray hair and she was kind of rotund.
Curtis: Uh huh
Interviewer: You know? And he was the white-haired man
Curtis: I don’t recall that. I don’t remember their…
Interviewer: You don’t remember I called them Auntie and Uncle?
Curtis: No, I don’t.
Interviewer: Okay, well what about… Well, I know you don’t remember—you didn’t know that they were Jimmy’s grandparents, but what about going over there to watch tv? Do you remember ever going over there to watch tv?
Curtis: No
Interviewer: Okay, well what are some of the other things you remember?
Curtis: Well you must keep in mind I was really, really young.
Interviewer: Yes, you were, you were in that area.
Curtis: Yeah
Interviewer: That area, but we’re gonna move on down the street to Jordan—
Curtis: We’re gonna move on down?
Interviewer: We’re gonna move on down the street to Jordan in a little while
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: I’m just trying to gather your—
Curtis: Well we can stay on 4th Street— we can stay on 4th Street for now. I know going west there was a mom and pop store there. Was it Ms. Rose or something?
Interviewer: Mama Rose.
Curtis: Mama Rose
Interviewer: Now Mama Rose had the snow cones. Remember Rudolph?
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: Big Rudolph?
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: Rudolph
Curtis: Yeah
Interviewer: And Mama Rose had the snow cone place right next to Hodge’s Grocery Store.
Curtis: Oh okay
Interviewer: Hodge’s Grocery Store was where your mama worked.
Curtis: Okay, Hodge’s… okay, okay…
Interviewer: Now her name was Rose Hodge and his name… I believe his name was George Hodge.
Curtis: okay, okay
Interviewer: That was the little grocery store that Mama worked in.
Curtis: Yeah, I remember that we would go in there occasionally when we would find a nickel (both laugh) we would find a nickel and we would go in and we would spend a nickel on candy or something like that, they were nice people.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: They were very nice, I remember that.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: And there was a church that sat there on the corner
Interviewer: St Mary’s CME
Curtis: St Mary’s CME
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Okay, and I believe across the street there was an upholstery shop?
Interviewer: that was—
Curtis: Right there on the corner.
Interviewer: Mr. Robinson’s
Curtis: Mr. Robinson’s, okay well these names escape me
Interviewer: Yes, well you probably didn’t know the names, but you’re remembering well the things
Together: that were there.
Curtis: Yeah, I remember that, and then west of there, there was a fountain—
Interviewer: It was an ice cream—
Curtis: Ice cream
Interviewer: We called it Mr. Brookes Ice Cream Sundry
Curtis: Sundry…
Interviewer: That’s what we called it, but it was like a malt shop and a pharmacy that was where people in our area got their scripts filled
Curtis: okay, okay
Interviewer: ‘cuz is was a pharmacy and Mr. and Mrs. Brookes and they had two—well there were two adopted children. One of them’s name was Sammy Brookes
Curtis: Mm hmm, Sammy, I remember that
Interviewer: His name was— actually Sammy— we called him Sammy and then Sharon.
Curtis: Sharon, I remember Sharon.
Interviewer: Sharon used to sing duets with Sister Timmons in that church.
Curtis: Okay, mm hmm, alright
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: I remember them, quite well. Now who was the— across the street, going across 4th Street, who was that that lived in that corner house? Brick.
Interviewer: Was it on 4th Street.
Curtis: On 4th Street, seemed like we knew them rather well or something.
Interviewer: I— Well of Jordan, that was Callum, you had the drug store.
Curtis: Right
Interviewer: And then—so here’s the drug store. Where was the brick house you were talking about?
Curtis: Okay, the brick house was cross the street.
Interview: Here was the—the upholstery shop was right here. Upholstery shop, drug store, church
Curtis: It would have to be that way.
Interviewer: Drug store—I mean grocery store. Okay, so I think you’re talking about on Callum, going on Callum between 3rd and 4th Street—
Curtis: No
Interviewer: There was a house there.
Curtis: No, it was on 4th Street
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: It was like directly across from the church.
Interviewer: Okay, I don’t know.
Curtis: I reckon across the street from the church. The guy he would draw pictures, you remember? He was real good at drawing pictures.
Interviewer: Was he a young guy?
Curtis: Um…
Interviewer: To you would he have been young or old?
Curtis: He was older.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: He was older and I thought that he was um…
Interviewer: Retarded
Curtis: Retarded, I thought. You don’t recall?
Interviewer: (indicates no)
Curtis: Well he would draw [unintellligble] pictures or something like that
Interviewer: Oh, okay, well I’ll ask Edward about that.
Curtis: Edward—
Interviewer: Edward our older brother, your older brother, my younger brother.
Curtis: your younger brother
Interviewer: Yeah, we’ll ask Edward about that ‘cuz Edward’s memory—the mind of a historian.
Curtis: Mm hmm, he should remember that.
Interviewer: Okay, anything else of 4th Street in that area you remember?
Curtis: Uh, Brother Carthern, they lived across the street
Interviewer: 3rd Street, Carthen was down on 3rd.
Curtis: Well, didn’t his mother or someone live next to that drug store?
Interviewer: [indicates no]
Curtis: Who was that that—I think so?
Interviewer: No, the Cartherns were on 3rd and Jordan.
Curtis: But you remember Mom would always go by that house next to the drug store? On 4th Street?
Interviewer: And do what? And do what? Go by there for what?
Curtis: We would like leave church to go over there.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: It’s been—
Interviewer: I kind of remember that, but who those people were… They were not the Carthens though
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: I can’t remember… Okay this is where the Carthens lived. We were on 320 N Jordan Street, Jordan off of third. Next door to—on 3rd Street going East—next door to us was Derry, Ditty boy, Patricia and them. Next door to them was the Gaddises.
Curtis: Okay, true
Interviewer: With Butch—
Curtis: Butch.
Interviewer: Butch Gaddis and his family. Next to them was Butch’s grandmother named Georgia May.
Curtis: That’s true.
Interviewer: And going on down there was like the Sangles, somebody, staying on the same side of the street there was a house down there, and then there was a little field and going on —further down 3rd Street towards Callum—
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: Was the Carthens.
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: They had bought that house, so that was where the Carthens lived. Now, when you were probably an infant, we lived on the corner of NE 3rd and Callum and that was where Grandmother and Grandfather came and visited us.
Curtis: I don’t recall that.
Interviewer: But you—I was at least three, so you had to have been—
Curtis: One (laughs)
Interviewer: Yeah, an infant. Okay, so when we cross Callum, then we’re going on down to another little section where some—it was once a grocery store, but some older people lived there and Mama used to go to those old people’s house and cook and clean their house for them. She used to take us with her. Now, in toward the end of that block: you’re going on down toward in that section close to the 1700 block, but on 3rd Street—
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: Was where Jimmy Cathens—there were some more Heards, so they may have been the sisters to Uncle and Auntie.
Curtis: Okay, okay
Interviewer: But those are—there were some related to the Carthens folks.
Curtis: Okay
Interviewer: But that was on 3rd Street and they were there before we moved on 3rd and Jordan.
Curtis: 3rd and Jordan, okay
Interviewer: So, what else do you remember on 4th Street?
Curtis: M’kay…
Interviewer: Because you would have been encountering 4th Street after we moved to 3rd and Jordan.
Curtis: That’s true, that’s true
Interviewer: You would have been, so what are some other things you remember?
Curtis: There was an [unintelligible] company there.
Interviewer: Slaughter’s
Curtis: Slaugther’s?
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Okay and that was also located on 4th Street.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Next to that was—there was a little gray house, a duplex
Interviewer: Yes
Curtis: That sat there, I don’t recall who lived there, but we did visit those people there, several times, and then I believe next to that there was a little store.
Interviewer: It was a kind of a little sandwich shop.
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: It served cooked food.
Curtis: Okay, and there on the corner of that—
Interviewer: Which corner was that?
Curtis: the corner of Jordan and 4th, there was a black owned barbershop there and then across the street from that there was the…
Interviewer: Dickson’s Garage
Curtis: Dickson’s Garage
Interviewer: The same Dicksons—
Curtis: The same Dicksons
Interviewer: That had lived in front of us
Curtis: in front of us, and I wasn’t aware that they lived in front us. I had no idea of that. Okay, and…
Interviewer: Next to the garage.
Curtis: Next to the garage was a wash-a-mat
Interviewer: Laundromat
Curtis: Laundromat to do our washing, there were an apartment housing, something like that was on top of that, there was… mm hmm
Interviewer: (sounding skeptical in a way that only an older sister can) Okay
Curtis: Okay, (laughs) ask your brother, your younger brother
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: Your next-year younger brother, ask him. I’m pretty sure because there was a guy there and he was in charge of newspapers or something.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: Because Edward and I we would throw newspapers
Interviewer: Yeah, you and Edward threw papers.
Curtis: And this guy—
Interviewer: For the Daily Oklahoman
Curtis: For the Daily Oklahoman and this gentleman that I’m speaking of he lived on top of this—
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: On top of this— on this
Both: Laundromat
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: On top of the laundromat and going on down, your best friend, what was her name?
Interviewer: Sandra Rivers
Curtis: Sandra Rivers
Interviewer: I tried to get Sandra to come for an interview and just couldn’t… too shy, too—you know just…
Curtis: Really? I am shocked.
Interviewer: You know she loved me, and she loved to talk, but she wouldn’t come down and sit down.
Curtis: Mmm, okay
Interviewer: Yeah, Sandra Rivers, [unintelligible] was her little brother.
Curtis: And she had a—
Interviewer: Carolyn
Curtis: Carolyn, Carolyn Rivers
Interviewer: Would have been either with you or with Edward [in school], I think she was with you.
Curtis: I believe she was with me.
Interviewer: So, what area did you and Edward throw papers?
Curtis: We…
Interviewer: Can you remember?
Curtis: Bath started at Bath heading west
Interviewer: 4th and Bath?
Curtis: Yeah, 4th and Bath. We ran that entire area, I believe it was 4th and Bath— 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th, I believe and all the way to Lottie, which is west
Interviewer: Ooo, that’s a big area.
Curtis: Lottie, yeah, all the way to Lottie
Interviewer: That’s where New Hope is
Curtis: Yes, Lottie
Interviewer: That’s a wide area
Curtis: All the way to Lottie, that was where we saw the UFO [both laugh)
Interviewer: You and Edward saw a UFO?
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: Tell me that story
Curtis: Well, although my brother seemed to vaguely—he said he vaguely remembers it—
Interviewer: And I gotta say if it’s something Edward doesn’t remember then, you know…
Curtis: But Mom remembered it.
Interviewer: Okay well then tell me about it, tell me the whole thing.
Curtis: I believe we were on, I don’t know the street before Lottie… Mass-tu-chets
Interviewer: Massachusetts
Curtis: Mass-tu-chets
Interviewer: Massachusetts
Curtis: Massa-tusetts
Interviewer: Massachusetts
Curtis: Massachusetts
Interviewer: Mm hmm, that’s one of those words
Both: Massachusetts
Curtis: I believe we were on that particular street—
Interviewer: We called it a lot of things, but we didn’t call it Massachusetts (laughs), Massachusetts, okay, it was a short street, I mean it didn’t run the whole—
Curtis: Yes it did.
Interviewer: the whole distance.
Curtis: Yes it did, it ran up 4th Street all the way to 6th Street.
Interviewer: Okay, short street, it didn’t run all the way—like from 2nd all the up to—
Curtis: Okay, okay
Interviewer: wherever, it was a short street.
Curtis: Well then—
Interviewer: ‘cuz it was just a little short street thrown in there. Okay so, y’all are on Massachusetts.
Curtis: We’re on Massa-tushetts (Interviewer chuckles) Massachusetts one morning throwing papers and I take it that this was probably about four o’clock in the morning or five somewhere in there in the morning and there was a house located in the back and a house in the front, so Edward and I were walking and making our delivaries and so I asked him, well which one are you going to throw? The one in the front or the one in the back? The house in the front or the house in the back? And he said that he would throw the house in the back and so he started to the back and I went on to the front house to deliver the paper and just at that moment, I will never forget it, there was a, and I’m going to call it a flying saucer because that’s what I saw.
Interviewer: That’s what it looked like to you.
Curtis: That’s what it
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: ‘kay? (laughs) and it came down and hovered over a group of trees and this was a very large object.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Okay?
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: And it hovered over this group of trees and it hovered there I would say, about three seconds, three to five seconds.
Interviewer: Just long enough for you to see it.
Curtis: Just long enough for me to really see it. It hovered there, it had different colored lights on it. I would say red, yellow, blue and it hovered there for about five seconds and it (whooshing noise) took off. At that moment, I—Edward was coming back to the front and I asked him “Edward did you see that? Did you see that?” he said “Yes, I saw it.” I said “Did you see that man?” he said “Yes, I saw it.” His memory may be a little shaky—
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: you know, but at that particular time he—
Interviewer: said he saw it.
Curtis: He said that he saw it.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: So—
Interviewer: Then what happened after that? What’d you do after that?
Curtis: Well we went on our—
Interviewer: Finished your route.
Curtis: Finished our route, and when we got home we told Mama what we saw and I’m sure at that particular time she was probably doubtful, you know, that we actually saw that, but here recently, when Edward was here a month ago…
Interviewer: Uh huh
Curtis: You know
Interviewer: He was here for the—
Curtis: For the reunion
Interviewer: For the reunion
Curtis: I asked him if he remembered it and he said no he didn’t, so in the presence of Mama I asked—in the presence of Edward I asked Mama, “Mama do you remember?” that we came home and told you that and she said yes she remembers.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: But it actually happened, I saw it.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: And I remember it and I—
Interviewer: You would have been—at that time we were already living on 3rd and Jordan, so you would have been maybe— How old were you? ‘Cuz we stayed there many years. We stayed there until I was seventeen and we moved there when I was probably about seven, so you were probably…
Curtis: Well I’m gonna say I was probably eight or nine years old.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Something like that.
Interviewer: And just think about it, back in that day being, let’s say eight or nine years old, with your brother, Edward, who was a year older.
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: That would make him nine or ten.
Curtis: Right
Interviewer: That you guys were safe enough to cover—
Curtis: Yes, that large area
Interviewer: That large area, throwing newspapers at four something in the morning—
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: By yourselves, isn’t that remarkable
Curtis: Yes, that’s absolutely remarkable.
Interviewer: That is was… That there was no fear that anything would happen to you.
Curtis: None at all
Interviewer: Out there at that time of morning, two little boys—
Curtis: The only fear we had was—the only fear I had was—I had this thing about bats.
Interviewer: Bats?
Curtis: Bats, B-A-T, they—
Interviewer: Okay (laughs)
Curtis: They flew around early in the morning like that, you know this—and I remember we always had a saying that “don’t throw anything at the bats,” because the bats will come down to investigate what it was or where it came from, and this particular morning I was throwing my route by myself and I thought that I’ll try that and see if it works, so I took a newspaper and I threw it up at the bat and the bat came down and followed that paper all the down until it hit the ground and it flew off. Okay, so I thought that was the end of it, but from that moment on, well I know—it felt like a year, but I’ll say a good month or two those bats would follow me. They would follow me. They would chase me up and down the street.
Interviewer: Are you sure?
Curtis: I am absolutely, one hundred percent positive
Interviewer: (laughs)
Curtis: There was a—you remember that big woman that was at our church?
Interviewer: Yeah, Sister Timmons.
Curtis: Was that her name?
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: She married a little small skinny man?
Interviewer: A tall skinny man
Curtis: A tall skinny man?
Interviewer: Mr. Brown
Curtis: Mr. Brown, that’s right
Interviewer: He was a minister or something, Reverend Brown or something.
Curtis: Okay, they had a peach tree in their front yard.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: And this was on… 3rd Street? This was on 3rd Street.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: A few mornings thereafter throwing at the bat, I decided that I wanted a peach—
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Out of the tree. Okay so I go up to the peach tree and low and behold what was waiting on me in that tree. A bat come out after me.
Interviewer: (laughs)
Curtis: I must have broke out running, I mean I—that was the only fear I really had.
Interviewer: Was of bats
Curtis: Was the bats
Interviewer: I thought for sure you were going to say dogs or something
Curtis: No
Interviewer: Bats
Curtis: It was the bats and the bats would—I don’t know it just seemed like they had it out for me because they would—I mean different locations of my route—
Interviewer: They would show up?
Curtis: They would show up.
Interviewer: (laughs)
Curtis: And they would let me know, you know “I know you threw at us and—”
Interviewer: (laughing) Toris!
Curtis: “whatever, I’m telling you we are after you” (Interviewer continues laughing) that was my only—
Interviewer: Your biggest fear?
Curtis: My biggest fear, during that period, was running from those bats.
Interviewer: How did it—how did y’all come to throw papers? Did y’all ask Mama for permission? I mean, well, I’m sure you had to that but…
Curtis: I don’t know, Edward had the route first.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: And I started doing papers with him, first, so I’m pretty sure he got permission from Mom to do that.
Interviewer: Sure
Curtis: But the gentlemen, I guess I’ll say, I don’t recall his name, that was in charge of the routes and what guys went through the routes, he asked me if I wanted a route.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: So I said “yes I did,” and every morning, to teach me what was going on, he would come by the house and pick me up and take me to the route.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: And then I would start throwing papers.
Interviewer: Uh huh
Curtis: Okay, and that went on for a period of time. So, I just took for granted that he was going to come by and pick me up every morning.
Interviewer: You thought that was the routine.
Curtis: I thought that was the routine and this one particular morning he came by and he said “You’re not on your route?” and I said “No, I waiting for you to come get me” and he said “Oh no, it don’t work like that.”
Both: (laugh)
Curtis: “When your brother gets up, YOU get up. When he go out, you go out. He do his route, you do your route.” and I said “Oh, okay well” (laughs) “now I know how it goes.” you know? I enjoyed that I did.
Interviewer: Now, you would have gone to Dunbar Elementary School, who were some of your—do you remember the names of some of your buddies? You don’t remember the names of any of your buddies from back in that day? You know, and that’s again, some things you have sharp memory, details, for and some things just kind of elude you
Curtis: I remember…
Interviewer: ‘cuz I run into guys all the time that the first thing they ask is “How’re your brothers doing?”
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: “How’s Edward and Toris?” They remember you from the old neighborhood, remember you guys from the old neighborhood.
Curtis: I really don’t remember… Oh! Wait a minute. Well, I can’t remember his name right now, but he was a good friend of mine and he got his leg broke on the playground at Dunbar on the merry-go-round
Interviewer: the merry-go-round, that thing was dangerous
Curtis: In some kind of way he rolled up under that thing and it caught his leg and it broke his leg. I can’t remember his name. He was a friend of mine.
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: And I remember Linda Hamilton, she was—I had the sweets for her (laughs)
Interviewer: Okay
Curtis: I had the sweets for her. Mom would tell me to come home after school, no stops, but I had to try get over to walk Linda—
Interviewer: Linda Hamilton
Curtis: Linda Hamilton home. Walk Linda home first and then I had to really hurry up
Both: And get back home
Curtis: Before Mama found out, so… But Willy Kitchen, he was there
Interviewer: Yeah
Curtis: I don’t know the other names really escape me
Interviewer: Okay, now do you remember? Seemed like my memory was that you kind of had a tough time in school.
Curtis: Mm hmm
Interviewer: Even in in elementary school, kind of a tough time, though I have seen report cards about you. Have you seen some of your old report cards that Mama kept?
Curtis: No
Interviewer: When you were in elementary school?
Curtis: No
Interviewer: And the report card always talked about your improvement. It always talked about—and I said to myself “I have got to show this to Toris, ‘cuz he—” you know, ‘cuz your memories are like basically negative memories, you know, about the learning process and in those report cards in every quarter you were steadily showing improvement: “he has really improved his reading,” “he’s really improved his math,” like that and I said “he needs to know that it wasn’t always a stumbling block.”
Curtis: Yeah (chuckles)
Interviewer: Yeah, your grades and the comments from your teacher all spoke of how you were improving.
Curtis: Wow, I wasn’t aware of that. I thought that they were—
Interviewer: It always seemed so tough to you.
Curtis: It was yeah.
Interviewer: I remember that
Curtis: I don’t know, I feel like I don’t know why learning came so difficult for me.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: And stemmed over into my—
Interviewer: High level grades? Is that what you’re saying?
Curtis: Yes it did, but one day it’s like a light came on and I said “Oh, this is what they’re talking about! Okay now I’ve got it!” but I had to go through all of that first.
Interviewer: Yeah, everyone’s process—see this is the essence of it, everyone’s process—
Curtis: Is different
Interviewer: The learning process is different. Of course, back in that day, we were all absolutely taught the exact same way, but everyone’s ability—
Both: To learn
Interviewer: Is not learned the exact same way.
Curtis: That’s right, I agree
Interviewer: We have different methods by which we learn things—
Curtis: What I’ve learned—
Interviewer: Depending on who we are.
Curtis: What I’ve learned in my short time here on this Earth, I’ve learned that, as you stated, that children learn on different levels and you have to take the time to find out what level they learn on and once you learn—
Interviewer: That
Curtis: But you have to learn the level the learn on.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: See? Then you’ll know how to teach them, you know on that level.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: And so I’ve had—I think that I’m a pretty good teacher. I teach children real well.
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: Because I take time to learn what level they learn on.
Interviewer: So let’s say you went on through junior high and high school, so what were some of the—did you learn any important lessons during your high school time? Because I kind of remember you were a little rebel.
Curtis: Um…
Interviewer: In high school, am I correct?
Curtis: In high school? Okay, yeah I guess (laughs)
Interviewer: (laughingly) “Me rebel?” You rebel? Yes. Well you know were kind of a little rebel. You kind of had a streak of independence and you know our mama was a staunch mama. You know? She was a for real mama.
Curtis: Yes she was and that’s good. I believe it’s good, now that I look back on it. The problems that I’ve had in the past I probably would not have had them had I heed to Mamas, you know, teachings.
Interviewer: Oh, yeah.
Curtis: I learned to be independent. I learned to stand on my own two feet and I also learned to be careful of the company that you keep because if you get in with the wrong crowd, they’ll take you down.
Interviewer: Yeah
Curtis: And I also learned that whatever your decisions—whatever decisions you make as a child, they will carry over when you become an adult, so you have to be very careful the decisions that you make and the people that you run with.
Interviewer: You sound like your mama now, you know, you really sound like—that was exactly what she would have said. Now let’s—we gonna fast forward we’re just about to wrap this conversation up
Curtis Okay
Interviewer: And so we’re gonna talk about what you’re doing today with regard to you had a calling, I remember, as a young man into the ministry.
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: And tell me briefly accepted that calling then and where you are with it today.
Curtis: Well, would you… That would be kind of difficult to explain without telling you what the calling was, are you asking about that?
Interviewer: What was the calling? Yes.
Curtis: Oh okay.
Interviewer: What was the calling?
Curtis: One night in 1970, I was at a church gathering and I got up and left out of the church and went into the parking lot and to make a long story short I had some marijuana. I sat out in the parking lot and I smoked the marijuana.
Interviewer: Parking lot of the church.
Curtis: Parking lot of the church, this is true, and I had just started smoking it and I heard this voice that said to me “Curtis why are you doing this?” so I looked around, I know I heard the voice, I looked around the car and I didn’t see anyone. I looked in the backseat of the car and the was no one there, so out of curiosity I said “Who is this?” and the voice said “I’m God.” That was really difficult for me to accept at that particular time, so my response was “You ain’t no God. This ain’t no God.” And he replied “Curtis I am God. I made you. I put you here for a purpose, not to be treating your body this way. You’re someone special.” so when I finally realized that this great being had taken the time to speak with me, then I came unglued, I mean I was scared to death. I cried and asked him for forgiveness and after that he—after we had our conversation—another thing that we talked on, you said that learning for me was rather difficult—
Interviewer: Kind of rocky
Curtis: Kind of rocky and I knew that and it always bothered me, so one of my statements that I made to him, to God, was “why did you make me this way when my brother and my sister are so smart? They make As and Bs and I make Ds and Fs. Why did you do that?” and he told me, he said “Curtis, you are smart enough for now.” And when he made that statement, I knew that that was the end of the subject
Interviewer: Mm hmm
Curtis: That there was no reason to go any further because you know, so after that he told me to stay with him and everything would be alright.
Interviewer: Okay, you would have been about twenty years old then
Curtis: That’s correct.
Interviewer: Okay so…
Curtis: Three years later I went into the ministry
Interviewer: Three years later you went into the ministry.
Curtis: Yes
Interviewer: Did you remain in the ministry?
Curtis: No, I did not.
Interviewer: Okay, and for several years you did not remain in the ministry.
Curtis: That’s correct.
Interviewer: So, when did you return to your calling?
Curtis: I returned to my calling… two thousand….
Interviewer: Four?
Curtis: 2004. I believe it was 2004 and I’ve been with it ever since I’m at Faith Tabernacle in Spencer.
Interviewer: And the pastor there is?
Curtis: The pastor there is Pastor Antoine, he’s there with his son and so I’m holding up the bloodstained banner (laughs).
Interviewer: That’s it. Do you remember that song we used to sing in church? We are soldiers?
Curtis: In the army, yes.
Interviewer: Okay, let’s sing it.
Both: (singing) We are soldiers in the army/ we have to fight although we have to cry
Interviewer: (speaking) Now hold up
Both: (singing) We have to hold up the bloodstained
Interviewer: (speaking) We have to hold it up
Both (singing) have to hold it up until we die
Interviewer: (speaking) And that’s what we were raised on
Curtis: That’s what we were raised on
Interviewer: And that’s what we’re doing today aren’t we?
Curtis: Absolutely
Interviewer: And so we thank the Lord
Curtis: We thank the Lord
Interviewer: For our mother, for our daddy because without him we would not be here.
Curtis: That’s true
Interviewer: You know, he was not the dedicated father that he should have been—
Curtis: Should have been
Interviewer: But were it not for him we would not be.
Curtis: That’s true
Interviewer: We thank you Lord for all things.
Curtis: Yes we do.
Interviewer: And I appreciate you taking the time to come out and talk with your big sister.
Curtis: Why thank you very much for having me and I’m more than happy that I was able to make it. Hopefully everything will work out.
Interviewer: It will.
Curtis: I’m sure it will.
Interviewer: We know it don’t we?
Curtis: God bless
Interviewer: God bless you too
Curtis: Thank you
Interviewer: I love you
Curtis: I love you too.
Interviewer: (laughs)